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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: blownEFI] #1868827
07/12/15 02:27 PM
07/12/15 02:27 PM
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Spartan040 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By blownEFI
There is a lot of stuff required to "piece together" your own custom efi system, which is exactly why the pre-built kit systems are so popular because they save you all that trouble. Fortunately there is a lot of info on the web to help you, just do some searches like "how to convert to efi" and you will find many articles such as these:

Fuel Injection Conversion Part 1

Fuel Injection Conversion Part 2

Fuel Injection Conversion Part 3

I didn't read those particular articles but I'm just listing them as examples of what you can find when you search. There are many others, you just have to do some searches and you will find the info is out there.


Thanks very much, I'll check them out. Really the only thing I want to change on the Edelbrock is the controller and the injectors, but it'd be cheaper to do it myself.

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1868853
07/12/15 03:18 PM
07/12/15 03:18 PM
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Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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I would get the intake, rails, throttlebody, injectors, then the megasquart built to fit the parts you have, then the rest of the sensors are over the counter GM replacements. That leaves a fuel pump and regulator, the sensors, and fuel line.

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1868895
07/12/15 04:41 PM
07/12/15 04:41 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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What size injectors are you going to use?

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: 451Mopar] #1869007
07/12/15 08:17 PM
07/12/15 08:17 PM
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Spartan040 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By 451Mopar
What size injectors are you going to use?


I'm not sure which size I should use, my horsepower goal is 600-700. I was thinking 52 or 60 lb/hour?

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1869071
07/12/15 10:14 PM
07/12/15 10:14 PM
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redmist Offline
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I would suggest these injectors. they are $41 each on Rock Auto

I used them on my MS3X 440. They are 60lb-Hr out of the 2013 Ford Mustang Cobra.



I then purchased hats to make them full length to fit on my Edelbrock ProFlo-XT Manifold!

Super race car lookin!




Here is a link to the hats:
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/categor...-injectors.html


Last edited by redmist; 07/12/15 10:22 PM.
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: redmist] #1869123
07/12/15 11:22 PM
07/12/15 11:22 PM
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Spartan040 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By redmist
I would suggest these injectors. they are $41 each on Rock Auto

I used them on my MS3X 440. They are 60lb-Hr out of the 2013 Ford Mustang Cobra.



I then purchased hats to make them full length to fit on my Edelbrock ProFlo-XT Manifold!

Super race car lookin!




Here is a link to the hats:
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/categor...-injectors.html



Ooooh, me like! Thanks. There are several different injectors to choose from, are those the Airtex/Wells 4G2275? There are also Bosch injectors available, which is the best? Are they all 60 lb/hour?

Last edited by Spartan040; 07/12/15 11:39 PM.
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1869252
07/13/15 08:18 AM
07/13/15 08:18 AM
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Swedcharger67 Offline
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If you want quality injectors I believe Bosch, Siemens etc. would be a safe bet.
Myself I'm using 82 lbs Siemens injectors in my 512, but I'm running E85 so I need a little more than on gasoline.


Martin, 67 Charger, 512 cui, E85, MegaSquirt MS3X sequential ignition & injection
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Swedcharger67] #1869346
07/13/15 11:17 AM
07/13/15 11:17 AM
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Spartan040 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Swedcharger67
If you want quality injectors I believe Bosch, Siemens etc. would be a safe bet.
Myself I'm using 82 lbs Siemens injectors in my 512, but I'm running E85 so I need a little more than on gasoline.


I noticed that Edelbrock has injectors that are 60 lb/hour at 43 PSI, and 87 lb/hour at a higher pressure, I'm not sure what. Would those work well? Or should I go with the Bosch mustang injectors?

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1869392
07/13/15 01:09 PM
07/13/15 01:09 PM
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.

As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.

I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.

As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones

Monte

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1869475
07/13/15 03:09 PM
07/13/15 03:09 PM
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Spartan040 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.

As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.

I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.

As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones

Monte


I think I'll go with the Siemens that Edelbrock sells then. Any suggestions for a harness for the Pro Flo XT system? As for the ECU, I think so far I like either the Megasquirt 3 Pro and the Holley system. Whichever one is the easiest to use, is compatible with an E85 sensor, has a self-learning and tuning feature.

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1869481
07/13/15 03:24 PM
07/13/15 03:24 PM
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Hot Rod Ridge
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I think you will be happy with either.

You will need to buy a harness at the same time you get the ECU. Most people get the universal but you can build one from scratch.

Make sure you get the wide band 02 and harness. Or call Monty and give him your specs and he can hook u up.

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: FastmOp] #1869487
07/13/15 03:47 PM
07/13/15 03:47 PM
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Spartan040 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By FastmOp
I think you will be happy with either.

You will need to buy a harness at the same time you get the ECU. Most people get the universal but you can build one from scratch.

Make sure you get the wide band 02 and harness. Or call Monty and give him your specs and he can hook u up.


Megasquirt then. I think I'll probably buy a universal harness too, just seems easier. Oh, and I was wondering, is the Pro Flo XT a sequential injector system? Or is it bank fire? If its sequential I was told I need cam and crank sensors, where would I find those?

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1869492
07/13/15 03:55 PM
07/13/15 03:55 PM
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redmist Offline
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.

As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.

I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.

As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones

Monte


What???

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1869501
07/13/15 04:05 PM
07/13/15 04:05 PM
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Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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All the vendors have crank triggers or you can use a generic 4 magnet MSD. For a BB Mopar cam sensor there are two options: you can use a jeep sensor with a bushing, or you can modify a distributor to generate the signal (one pulse per rev), then just make a cover (inst on my site). FAST makes a dual-sync that works ok... but the body base is big so you always have to grind to get it to fit in. I agree with Monte on the other points.

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1869502
07/13/15 04:09 PM
07/13/15 04:09 PM
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They make distributors with two pickups for sequential, or I use a mopar distributor modded heavily for the cam sensor and a MSD crank trigger.
The ECU and harness are what's sequential, the intake is just an intake. But you need to see what injector hole size is in it.

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: redmist] #1869579
07/13/15 06:13 PM
07/13/15 06:13 PM
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Originally Posted By redmist
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.

As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.

I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.

As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones

Monte


What???
Where is the confusion? You buy an aftermarket generic harness, it will NOT have connectors that fit those Ford injector plugs, unless the company offers that in an injector harness. Some do, some don't. And are those injectors low or high impedance. Does the ECU you are interested in drive either? Again, some do, some don't.

To the OP........it is pretty obvious that you are not SURE what you need. I suggest you contact somebody such as myself or Mopar Rich who does this stuff a LOT and let them put you a package together that will WORK. For the most part, users are going to suggest what THEY use. That may be good and it may not.

This is SIMPLE stuff really. You pick an ECU and harness that you want to use and go with that. The rest of the ancillary pieces don't really matter. We/Holley for example, have our boxes configured to work with both GM and Ford factory TPS, coolant, IAC, IAT, etc sensors. Some may not and that requires custom configuration or their specific sensors. Our box also controls the fuel pump, fans, water pump........basically whatever you want it to.......some don't. Ours has a full function data logger........some don't. We offer a full size monitor dash......some don't. Ours has a self learn system......some don't. Ours can control DBW throttle bodies and electronic transmissions.......some don't...........Ours will drive "smart coils" if you want to loose the dist and ignition box.......some don't........Do your research

injectors are sized from as low as 20lb/hr to over 500lb/hr.....you buy the injector size you NEED........makes no difference from who

Monte

Last edited by Monte_Smith; 07/13/15 06:18 PM.
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1869701
07/13/15 08:43 PM
07/13/15 08:43 PM
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Norwich CT USA
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Spartan040] #1869708
07/13/15 08:49 PM
07/13/15 08:49 PM
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I have a 511ci big block built for boost with the Edelbrock intake, dual sync dist, and MS2 ECU. Going to use a pair of 88mm turbos on it and 88lb Deatschwerks injectors.

Ultra cheap 😆

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1869756
07/13/15 09:21 PM
07/13/15 09:21 PM
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Spartan040 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By redmist
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.

As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.

I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.

As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones

Monte


What???
Where is the confusion? You buy an aftermarket generic harness, it will NOT have connectors that fit those Ford injector plugs, unless the company offers that in an injector harness. Some do, some don't. And are those injectors low or high impedance. Does the ECU you are interested in drive either? Again, some do, some don't.

To the OP........it is pretty obvious that you are not SURE what you need. I suggest you contact somebody such as myself or Mopar Rich who does this stuff a LOT and let them put you a package together that will WORK. For the most part, users are going to suggest what THEY use. That may be good and it may not.

This is SIMPLE stuff really. You pick an ECU and harness that you want to use and go with that. The rest of the ancillary pieces don't really matter. We/Holley for example, have our boxes configured to work with both GM and Ford factory TPS, coolant, IAC, IAT, etc sensors. Some may not and that requires custom configuration or their specific sensors. Our box also controls the fuel pump, fans, water pump........basically whatever you want it to.......some don't. Ours has a full function data logger........some don't. We offer a full size monitor dash......some don't. Ours has a self learn system......some don't. Ours can control DBW throttle bodies and electronic transmissions.......some don't...........Ours will drive "smart coils" if you want to loose the dist and ignition box.......some don't........Do your research

injectors are sized from as low as 20lb/hr to over 500lb/hr.....you buy the injector size you NEED........makes no difference from who

Monte


Thanks very much. I like the sound of your system, what is it?

Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1869800
07/13/15 09:57 PM
07/13/15 09:57 PM
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redmist Offline
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Monte they are standard EV-6/EV-14 injector connectors... They are high Z injectors I found dead time to be .94 MS with my injector drivers. They are also very linear at the base in idle range since they are a factory injector.

OP if your harness does not have this connector style, move on in my opinion...

If you have to buy a custom Holley style fuel injectors of some sort, run away! You wont be finding those injectors at the local parts store if needed.

I built an MS3X setup on my 440, and love it.


I'm just trying to suggest easy to find, off the shelf, ultra reliable, inexpensive parts that work for the OP.

[img]http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KIOiHGJGuNZ9kwuhZC0j3yT4aZgHEWz0r1brZY-nbnM=w1132-h641-no[/img]


Last edited by redmist; 07/13/15 10:04 PM.
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