I didnt ask for a 1000 hp pump gas engine. I asked for a big CI pump gas engine. They told me thats what they can do. If it was a R&D project and not sure when it would be done they should have told me that...its that simple. According to their Land and Sea dyno it made 1004 hp. 1000 divided by 622 equals 1.6 horse per inch.So i guess it can be done. Maybe you should be telling MM this ....

Lucky you....................we get 87,89 and 91 which I drive on but would never even consider racing it that way.

Am I missing something? I didn't see a figure of 22k. If it was only going to cost 22k, I would have been sceptical from the start. I agree with Andy, you can't build anything like that for under 35k unless it's a GM deal, and even then, I'm not sure. And let's not get started an what people advertize, because that's BS almost always.

It shouldn't be impossible to get 1.7 per cube on pump. It's pretty easy with a non exotic build to do it with more compression, challenged heads, and less than ideal headers.
My old W5 motor @ 422 inches went 140@ 3220 pounds with a crude suspension, shelf tti headers, and likely a non optimal carb tune.
That should be 1.7, or mighty close, and the heads were definately too small.
Good heads for engine size, optimal headers and optimized A/ F's even with pump gas shouldn't be challenging I wouldn't think.

Much easier to get 1.7 from a smaller engine. Apples and Oranges.

I see where Scott Brown built a 496 pump gas Hemi 6 or 7 years ago that made 851 horse
1.71

It's very frustrating for me to read these posts and it's not even my engine.I was fortunate enough to learn engine building skills when I worked in a heavy equipment component room when I was 14 years old. I really don't understand why people entrust their tens of thousands of hard earned money to someone they hardly know to build a bomb like that.
Engine building is not that hard but it does take a fair amount of time and a well equipped tool box.I think some of these engine shops get behind the 8 ball and with too many irons in the fire and hurry the builds and the customer gets something that hasn't been completely inspected.
Gus

I see where Scott Brown built a 496 pump gas Hemi 6 or 7 years ago that made 851 horse
1.71

600ci is still apple and oranges to a 496ci.

I think if we talked to enough people we will find horror stories coming from many engine builders.

Was that on a dyno or track proven numbers... I dont have a
lot of faith in dyos lately.. I would really doubt that the
OP engine made 1004 hp on MM dyno... we have seen other engines
that came off that dyno and the numbers were NO WHERE NEAR what
the track showed

The fact that you took out a loan for an engine is big mistake. The engine builder knows the buyer is tapped out so any unforseen costs get ate by the builder (and ther ARE unforseen costs on ANY build).

You are better off putting it in the corner, sitting on it until you are finacially able to fix it correctly (I would figure 10k minimum) and then finish the project.

I know it's a bitter pill but it is what it is.

Shame on Muscle Motors for bidding WAY too low on an engine like that. I would like to hear their side of the story.


A good friend told me decades ago this little phrase. It has proven true many times. It goes like this: race you wage.

Best of luck to you.

Lol..... You don't have to convince me to not believe anything they say.

Steve...Like I told you before, I'm very sorry for what you've gone through, but you're better off sitting on it and having it fixed by someone professional when you have the financial means to do so.
I'd suggest Dwayne Porter at Porter Racing Heads or Todd Marsh at Marsh Performance.

I'm pretty sure Tig's 600+ inch motor that Todd Marsh built for him made well over 1000 hp on pump gas.
I don't see it as impossible at all. My 572 hemi is pretty mild and makes over 800 hp N/A on pump 93 (140 mph at 3800+ lbs.). With a much more aggressive cam, bigger heads, and a tunnelram w/ a pair of dominators...I feel pretty confident it could make 4 digit power. I decided to leave the motor mild and spray it into 4 digit territory. My last outing proved it to be making around 1080 hp w/ a very mild tune up.

I would like MM to tell their side too. The loan was in my budget. Just wasn't planning taking out another to make engine useable.

This isn't a thread about how much the engine cost or how much hp/ci it can make. Honestly I wasn't expecting it to make 1000. Regardless of price what I was expecting was an engine that was assembled properly: Clearances checked, good oil control, good oil psi, good cylinder psi. At least it would be a solid foundation to build upon. Ive raced almost 40 yrs and never had a valve lock up in the guide.

Scott built me 2 engines. The 1st one was ready to rock right outta the crate. The 2nd one needed a little work done to it.

I agree 100%. Basic machining procedures are not hard to follow, regardless of brand (contrary to popular belief, the engine does not know what brand it is).

What is remarkable is the fact that certain technology trickles down from Pro Stock and Comp and some engine builders want to incorporate that crap into bracket engines. While most builders shy away from tunnel rams, roller cam bearings, 1200 plus pound valve springs, aluminum rods and rings with no tension they are quick to adapt incredibly tight tolerances and things of that nature. Not considering that PS has coated everything, impressive oil control and relatively short strokes.

It seems if you stuck a valve I would want to measure the ones that didn't stick. Slow timing is a guaranteed stuck valve even with .005 clearance on it. I would also want to measure the bearing clearances as well. Long stroke/short rod combos tend to make the crank flex and bend (Dart is working on LS blocks with bigger mains to increase overlap to stop some of the flexing issue) and maybe MM thought more clearance was appropriate for you application.

Also as a last thought......guys trying to run what I consider low oil pressure are doing the most damage to roller lifters, scuffing pushrods and grabbing bearings. I would rather have 50 at idle than 20. But that is me.

I think keep what you have, take some time off and regroup. this kind of thing is as bad for our hobby as is unavailable parts and crooked suppliers. Trust your gut. Most times it's right.

LOL! I've said the exact same thing about MM. Some of the worst quality work I've ever seen. We sent everything back.

Sometimes engines DO care what brand they are... a strictly chevy guy may not be familiar with chryslers core shift problems (probably why I have a 318 block in here with a 4.070 bore), or a ford guy messing with a chevy or dodge with siamese ex ports and the way the heat can build up there, or oiling differences are vast between different engines and can be very critical, or a dodge guy wondering why the heck chevy BBs have good ports and bad ports (one dumps in the middle of the cylinder and one dumps into the cylinder wall) and the best way to cam around it... thats just a few examples I can think of and I am just a little peon engine builder, there are tons of different engines that do have little quirks that a specialist engine builder may know where a "build everything" guy could not possibly know them all, he may build an adequate engine but a specialist should be able to wring a tad more and probably cheaper. Think you should take your SB mopar to John Kass? Or 351 windsor to Ray Barton? Those guys have incredible mad skills but probably better people out there for those engines.

I had a former engine builder that had
"Speed costs money...how fast do you want to go??"
Make no mistake...he meant it...

Kaase or Barton could build anything for me anytime. The engine has no idea what name is on the valve cover.

Who doesn't know that BBC intake ports are different? I knew that the first time I looked at one in 1978.

It's plain silly to think that quality machining and engine building is dependent on brand name. The ENGINE HAS NO IDEA WHAT NAME IS ON THE VALVE COVER.