I think you are a little late to the party brother...........LOL!!!

when the seal ends are at 6 & 12, and the retainer cap fits correctly dry, tighten the retainer bolts then fill side cavities with rtv. correct ?

Congrats!! The first part of this thread was painful to read, in part because I've had a similar problem, many attempts to fix, and got it down to a very limited drip, but never perfect. Next time the pan comes off, it will get fixed like you described.

That is correct. J.Rob

thank you ! i'm glad to see , finally, a GOOD fix for this very common problem. i'm sorry it took you an inordinate amount of time, grief, and expense to sort this out. thumbs up to you !

Great job on the fix. This post should be saved in the archives.

When "dry fitting" everything, you will be able to "feel" as well as see when it fits right, with no influence on the seal. Like I said, you will probably have to drill the retainer holes bigger, but that doesn't matter. Once the dry fit is good, the retainer will continually return to the "right" place when you drop it in. So for final install, put a little RTV on the bottom and you can also fill the side channels as well..........then drop it in, bolt it down.

I am actually surprised this seems to be a "new" method for so many. This has been such a problem for BBM over the years, I just assumed everybody knew this already..........LOL!!!

Seems every builder knows you rotate the seal ends on Chevy's and don't glue them in. I just applied the same theory to the Mopar and assumed everyone else did the same.......

Hi Jesse,

Denis is very happy with the attention to detail on your work and looking forward to running his new RAMM machined Stealth's.

They're bolted on but he ran into some pushrod clearance issues so I brought him my die grinder and a carbide to open up the pushrod holes. He's running Crane ductile iron 1.5 rockers with 3/8 pushrods. A 5/16 pushrod would have been no problemo

I'll keep you up to date on our progress



Ron

I have been having to do lots of extra grinding on Sidewinders for 3/8ths just depending on what rocker is used so I went to 5/16ths and it makes life EASIER--Smith Brothers has assured me that at 9 inch length range ( typical 440) that a 5/16th .080 wall is good to 700 open so more than covers any street application --they make .120 wall for folks that can't sleep at night--I would never do it in race application with big roller but that is not what they are all about anyway

I am happy you got this fixed--I am going to try it on my next build--Thing is I just can't get past the fact that we built way over 100 BB Mopars over the years and NEVER a leak then all of a sudden last few years whammo! I believe that it is because of inferior offshore produced seals--I put so many together so many ways with every kind of block, crank etc over the years with the good old Fel Pro then they changed that darn seal! We ( me , Todd M and 2 other well known builders in NC) swapped to the Superformance red seal--All 4 of us went a long while with NO leaks--then..He swapped to a black seal ( I would guess Victor) and said NO DIFF--kept on charging big $$ for it --OK, I don't care as long as it works then...all 4 of us have had leak issues again! I am NOT happy with that outfit!
I have ordered all 3 part numbers of FelPro, a Mr Gasket, and Victor rep is sending samples to our shop next week, I also have a seal from a fresh new Sealed Power gasket set and have been looking for any older stock seals--I plan to lay them all out, study them, measure them and see what is going on.
I ask every engine shop manager I see what they do and keep notes--I was surprised last week when big reman shop told me about a string of trouble they had and when it was finally fixed they found that the lube a white lithium grease type they had been using was the culprit--Fel Pro said wrong lube is #1 problem so what the heck is the correct lube??? I now use OIL only--had always just used assem lube like the red or some STP/assem lube mix I keep in an oil can etc I have never used a grease type product.
I really appreciate the contributions to this thread by the many skilled dedicated builders but feel like there is STILL more than meets the eye here and that seal quality or lack of is a big part of it--
Like everything else in this USA --sourced from cheapo place so that corps make $$ NO care at all about us in the field
Just my two cents

My engine builder order every seal imaginable.
They all looked the same. Must be the same mold now for every manufacturer. If you find a different variant,pass it on.

Ramm, what exact rear main seal did you end up using? I know you said, "Black one."

Just used the ones that come in the FelPro RACE 2716 set. Nothing special and they are made by National Seal& Bearing. It was a shame to waste the FelPro "good" red ones #2947 that the customer supplied me. I have mentally designed and have part #'s for a speedi-sleeve and 1 piece seal using a bolt on 2 piece billet aluminum housing. It would only work with aftermarket fully round crank flanges but I was getting desperate--lol. J.Rob

They are all the same, save for the material. I am only referencing the RED one here. Big deal--they may hold up better in a severe high heat situation but then you have other problems. Believe me I was fantasizing about machining another groove in the block and machining a dedicated retainer to double up the seals at one point. Scary thing is I was this close to doing it--'cuz I can. J.Rob

I've known Jesse for some time now and I can say this. He is an excellent machinist. The man can fab and hold tolerances. He can and has rebuilt just about everything that runs.
Oh and he is a Moparts nut. Lol
Your build would be in excellent hands. Matt

You don't happen to mean like this do you? Engine in the car and as I was torquing retainer pan studs,,,,instead of usual bolts,,,,felt a rapid loss of torque as though had stripped out aluminum retainer thread.

Milodon RR pan, ARP studs for main caps.

A bit of grinding with Dremel and all was well.

As an aside for OP, your rear pan bolts that go into retainer are required to be shorter than the other 18 pan bolts if you are using the slightly longer than stock pan bolts such as supplied in after market kits such as Mr. Gasket. They send you 20 bolts all the same length all slightly longer than stock,,,,,used at retainer they will bottom out before pan is tightly sealed giving appearance of a rear main leak.

1974 Motor Repair manual discusses this in section on replacing big block mopar oil pan. There also is a mopar factory directive that discusses this.

With engine in car this is not obvious, but with engine mounted on an engine stand at dyno this may not fool you. OP did say he had examined closely with a flashlight with engine running and that indication is that his issue is not pan leak however. This is how I discovered my problem with engine running in car. Mr. Gasket pan bolts bottoming were bottoming in retainer before pan was properly cinched up. Hence now, my use of studs.

Likely with OP as he has we'll investigated, not his issue,,,just a heads up for others who may be experiencing mysterious rear main leaks or what appear to be so.

I have posted a couple of other threads on this forum discussing my own journey and twilight zone adventure with confounding rear main oil leaks. .

Hopefully the peanut gallery will contain themselves and refrain from sniping at this post,,,,a private request that a couple of forum gentlemen might understand.

Couple more photos of fix for weak pan flange on Milodon pan. Pan will not withstand suggested 15 ft pound torque without flange dimpling when used with some gasket materials.

Not trying to beat a dead horse but....Just so I'm clear, you don't use the side seals at all with this method? Only RTV?

And by the way Thank You to All for this post it is very timely for me.

crabman173, before you go attack my products, character, business and livelihood on an open web forum get your facts right! I never relayed ANY facts directly to you.

I did not “swap” to a black seal. Both the “black” Polyacrylate and the “orange” Viton seals have been discontinued. We have depleted our inventory of the Viton seal and have a limited inventory of the Polyacrylate seals available at this time.

No it is NOT a Victor seal.

The ONLY difference between the “black” Polyacrylate seal and the “orange” Viton seal we supply is the rubber compound, PERIOD!

So far as your claim to us still charging BIG $$ for the “black” Polyacrylate seal is a flat out lie. Without quoting prices I can honestly state our Polyacrylate seal sells for 40% LESS than it’s Viton counterpart. You do NOT purchase directly from Superformance Products therefore what you pay is between you and your supplier. I however call BS on your claim.

You’re not happy with my outfit? Well I’m not too thrilled with your comments.

Just clearing the air here. Same mold cavity number.