The fastest engines I've had built were built by a guy that runs GM stuff. He doesn't run it because he likes it necessarily, he runs it because it's fast and cheaper than Mopar stuff, and he builds a lot of the Mopars too. Oh, and he know's they're all just air pumps!

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1622793/1.html

Top of the mountain

Since when do customers pay for someone else's R&D?

Either a shop can deliver what's promised at a agreed price, or they can't.

Ask Dave Dudek, or Charlie Westcott about 'nuances'...



Choose wisely, your next 'builder', grasshopper...

I agree with Tig. Todd@ Marsh performance is as honest as they come and builds nice stuff.

Isn't Mike from MM on this board?

he was.... hasn't posted since 11-14

In 1978 my dad bought a Prototype Racing engine 331ci for his circle track car that was dyno @ 585 HP @ 8500rpm, car was fast, now today the same size engines are going the same speeds and times around the track but are claiming the engines are making 750-800 + HP lol

Thanks streetwize...

I dont consider this engine an R&D experiment. They offer a pumpgas 622 with Brodix heads on their site. They also have a story on their site about building a set of PSO heads for a customer with a dragster. So they have built engines using World blocks. They have built pumpgas 622's. They have built PSO heads.

Happens all the time. When I learn new thing I incorporate them into the next opportunity I have. If that didn't happen, we'd all still be doing 3 angle valve jobs with a stone (for just one small example).

Economics 101: the CUSTOMERS pays it all, no matter what. Taxes go up, the customer eats it. Costs go up, the customer eats it. R&D time is no different either.

And, not to bash the OP here (because that is NOT my intent) we do not know how many times a customer changes his mind during a build. Some of the most costly engines I have done have been a customer who is like a fart in a skillet. Constantly going on the web, getting the new trick of the week part or procedure and wanting to change something in mid stream. That costs big money and lots of time.

That's all well and good. But it has nothing to do with the machining errors and lack of attention to detail assembling the engine. No matter the engine, paying a professional should result in professional results. Not backyard mistakes

I 100% agree and did, infact, post that very same thing several posts ago.

Nothing was changed or added to the build. ...Wait a minute. I did ask for a vacuum pump fitting be put on drivers side valve cover.

Just for fun...was the vaccuum pump included in the original discussions or did the pump come in later.

Not doing anything but trying to get background information.

Personally, I think MOPAR guys believing that a MOPAR shop HAS to build, or knows more about MOPAR motors, is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Sorry to sound harsh, but a motor is simply an air pump and that does NOT change based on what the valve covers say it is. All the MOPARs has "nuances" stuff is a bunch of crap. Power is power and you know how to make it or you don't. Proper machining is proper machining and you can do it or you can't. Period, end of story.

Wescott is a prime example. LONG time Chevy guy and was immediately a top player with a HEMI. Why, because he KNOWS how to make power and how the pump works.

And look at it this way, if your primary business is wedge Mopars, lets face it, you have been exposed to NO cutting edge stuff in years. So what have you learned about making power. On the other hand, if you build EVERYTHING, you see what is out there and what works. Then you try and apply what you learn to other makes.MM works on everything by the way

And dyno numbers are just that, numbers. Correction factors can be incorporated to make that sheet say whatever you want it to. I am with Andy...........a 1000hp, pump gas, Mopar wedge.......that's a TALL order. And guys can claim they have whatever, but me personally, have NEVER seen one of these "1000 hp pump gas" deals perform like that is what it has for power. MPH doesn't lie........dyno sheets do

And no way I would "part the motor out".........you will get .25 cents on the dollar that way. Probably a simple fix. Set it aside until you can have someone look at it

Yes it was included in original discussion. It was my fault for not telling them which valve cover i needed it on. ...They charged me an extra $150 to weld it in too.

You are probably correct on the simple fix thing Monte, I just threw the 10k number out there because evidently, the OP says the whole thing is [censored] and needs to be fixed. So I ASSume the cam is wrong, all the machining needs corrected and things like that.

The OP will most certainly make it WAY more painful parting it out.

I am going to ask my engine if it knows what brand it is. If it does, I guess I need to find a MoPar guru to finish it because I'm not a qualified MoPar expert.

BTW, it is an impossiblibilty for a dyno to lie. Dyno's do not lie. Flow benches do not lie. It is the CROOKS that run them who lie. I HATE liars.

There is NO EXCUSE in this day and age why you can't get on the phone and learn enough to know that a 1k PG MoPar is a damn big cat to skin. And, while your bullet is on the pump, the customer SHOULD be standing there watching and learning. And ask every question that comes to mind. If the question is not answered to your satisfaction, ask it again. If the builder can't answer it, you can figure you are getting a big ten inch (lie).