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Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: Mark Whitener] #1773810
03/08/15 02:17 PM
03/08/15 02:17 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Uhhhh.... yeah... that, too.

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: BradH] #1773811
03/08/15 03:39 PM
03/08/15 03:39 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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I agree, the big 4150 carbs probably do not flow as much air as the Dominator carbs even if the carb tuners say they do.

And the carb tuners don't talk much about quality of airflow which is where the Dominator is superior.

I've never seen it done, but I wouldn't be surprised if a two bbl Dominator made more power than a 750 Holley. Shouldn't be too hard of a test to run, I've just never done it.

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: AndyF] #1773812
03/08/15 03:54 PM
03/08/15 03:54 PM
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South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
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Quote:

If your carb has a dual pattern base then you can upgrade to a 4500 intake and keep the same carb.

I don't remember your combination so I don't know what makes the most sense for your next step. Having your intake manifold ported might give you more power for example than a carb change. It just depends where the "choke point" in your combo is.





No, mine is a single pattern 1050AN Quickfuel Q.

My combo, briefly, is a RB 493 stroker. 11.8:1 CR.
Intake is a Victor that is port matched and massaged a little at the curve under the carb base. 76cc RPM heads . Cam is a Scott Brown grind SFT 259*I/266*E with a 109cl. Lift with 1.6 rockers is around .635" or so.
4 speed, 18 spline transmission, with 4.56 Dana.

Like I said, I'm just going to stick with what I got. I don't see picking up much to justify the cost.
I appreciate all of the replies. You guys are pretty smart.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: AndyF] #1773813
03/08/15 05:20 PM
03/08/15 05:20 PM
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Mark Whitener Offline
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The biggest difference is in the distribution of fuel, an annular booster provides superior atomization and as a result better distribution. Put the right annular booster on a large 4150 and the difference will only depend if the engine can use the larger carb. There is an option in between...



Mark Whitener
[url=www.racingfuelsystems.com[/url]
Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: Mark Whitener] #1773814
03/08/15 06:54 PM
03/08/15 06:54 PM
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Mark thanks for taking the time to come in and explain a few things. of all the carb guys we have on here just about none of them have taken the time to try and help out.

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: Mark Whitener] #1773815
03/08/15 07:31 PM
03/08/15 07:31 PM
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Quote:

The biggest difference is in the distribution of fuel, an annular booster provides superior atomization and as a result better distribution. Put the right annular booster on a large 4150 and the difference will only depend if the engine can use the larger carb. There is an option in between...






Ok, I'll ask, what carb is this and what is the advantage of using this carb instead of switching over to a dominator?

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: 68LAR] #1773816
03/08/15 07:40 PM
03/08/15 07:40 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

If your carb has a dual pattern base then you can upgrade to a 4500 intake and keep the same carb.

I don't remember your combination so I don't know what makes the most sense for your next step. Having your intake manifold ported might give you more power for example than a carb change. It just depends where the "choke point" in your combo is.






No, mine is a single pattern 1050AN Quickfuel Q.

My combo, briefly, is a RB 493 stroker. 11.8:1 CR.
Intake is a Victor that is port matched and massaged a little at the curve under the carb base. 76cc RPM heads . Cam is a Scott Brown grind SFT 259*I/266*E with a 109cl. Lift with 1.6 rockers is around .635" or so.
4 speed, 18 spline transmission, with 4.56 Dana.

Like I said, I'm just going to stick with what I got. I don't see picking up much to justify the cost.
I appreciate all of the replies. You guys are pretty smart.




The Victor is kind of small for a 500 inch race motor so if you want to throw some money at the motor I'd start with a Super Victor if you have the room under the hood. Use an adapter to keep the 4150 carb. Other thing you can do is put some 1.70 rockers on the intake. You are probably curtain limited with that cam on that engine.

Buy a copy of PipeMax and run your engine thru it. That will tell you where the next increase in power will come from. My guess is the cam but you'll need to run the program to see.

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: Dodgeguy101] #1773817
03/08/15 08:23 PM
03/08/15 08:23 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:

Ok, I'll ask, what carb is this and what is the advantage of using this carb instead of switching over to a dominator?



I think that one of BLP's specials called a Lil' Bo, and I'd guess is for when your class doesn't allow 4500-type carbs, but you need to be able to give the combination more airflow than a typical 4150 can provide.

What confuses me is that I saw this one on their web site today, something they call a Weekend Warrior. Those venturi look pretty big, kind of like a Mini HP Dominator body on a 4150 base plate, and they say it's only a 750???

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: AndyF] #1773818
03/08/15 08:59 PM
03/08/15 08:59 PM
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South Park, Pa.
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Quote:

The Victor is kind of small for a 500 inch race motor so if you want to throw some money at the motor I'd start with a Super Victor if you have the room under the hood. Use an adapter to keep the 4150 carb. Other thing you can do is put some 1.70 rockers on the intake. You are probably curtain limited with that cam on that engine.




This cam has worked very well for me. It was originally in my stock stroke engine. Scott Brown told me back then that he liked to stay on the smaller side with cams. At that time I was running a MP 590. My best time was a 12.00 @ 114. After installing the Scotty cam, I was consistently in the 11.70 range at 118 mph. In the past I've tried larger cams in the stock stroke motor, but slowed down. You may be right with the larger engine. Maybe a little larger cam may be in order. Something like 265/270 with about the same lift. .635"-.640" on a 108 CL.



4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: 68LAR] #1773819
03/08/15 10:13 PM
03/08/15 10:13 PM
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Oregon
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If you're still in touch with Scotty then give him a shout and ask his opinion. My guess is that he would add 10 degrees or so plus some lift if you have enough VP clearance. If Scotty isn't available then give Dwayne a call.

If you're looking to make race car power then you'll need a lot more lift than .650 but of course then you have to spend money on springs and maintenance.

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: BradH] #1773820
03/09/15 12:07 PM
03/09/15 12:07 PM
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Florida
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Quote:

Quote:

Ok, I'll ask, what carb is this and what is the advantage of using this carb instead of switching over to a dominator?



I think that one of BLP's specials called a Little Bo, and I'd guess is for when your class doesn't allow 4500-type carbs, but you need to be able to give the combination more airflow than a typical 4150 can provide.

What confuses me is that I saw this one on their web site today, something they call a Weekend Warrior. Those venturi look pretty big, kind of like a Mini HP Dominator body on a 4150 base plate, and they say it's only a 750???




The Little BO/LBX is an dual oval blade that flows over 1200 CFM dry. When either class rules allow a weight break or the need for a larger carb while retaining a 4150 intake is wanted these are great options. They perform almost identical on an 800 HP BBC compared to a 1050 Dominator.

As far as the weekend warrior, they are 650 and 750 4 barrel carbs, using a billet body produced by BLP. Billet base with standard shafts, fixed calibration billet metering blocks, and QF sight glass bowls are used, all to allow a reasonably priced product to compete with the cast body carbs on the market. The billet bodies are available larger as well, the 750 actually has a 1.405 venturi, and with the 1.75 throttle blade the venturi is available from 1.405 to 1.620. I have 1.45 and 1.59 venturi bodies here if anyone is interested, and can configure either with down leg or annular boosters.


Mark Whitener
[url=www.racingfuelsystems.com[/url]
Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: Mark Whitener] #1773821
03/09/15 07:51 PM
03/09/15 07:51 PM
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While I'll eventually make a 4500 fit, for rght now I've been playing with a couple 4150 carbs. We went 9.46 and broke into the 5's in the 1/8th mile this weekend with our small block Duster. .

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: Mark Whitener] #1773822
03/10/15 10:23 AM
03/10/15 10:23 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Quote:

...I have 1.45 and 1.59 venturi bodies here if anyone is interested, and can configure either with down leg or annular boosters.



Tempting, but I have yet to test the last one (QF "1000" 1.52" v w/ BLP-modified downlegs) you built for me.

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: 68LAR] #1773823
03/10/15 06:08 PM
03/10/15 06:08 PM
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Southern Maryland
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Quote:

Thanks for the offer Gus, I appreciate it. I've been running a 1050AN Quickfuel for several years and I'm real pleased with the results. I was just wondering if there would be any worthwhile gains buy going with a Dominator set up. Unless used parts are used, you are looking at over $1K for intake and carb. For that kind of money,I'd want a substantial gain.
The way I'm leaning now, based on the way I drive my car, I'll just keep what I got. Having a 10 second 3900 lb. street car is something to be proud of, at least in my eyes.




I've been running the same setup since 2010 with 1050 main body.

See this post: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1

I like the 4150 series carb cuz you can use a stock oval air cleaner in "stealth mode" noone is the wiser as to what you've got under it.

I noticed you have the same MPH I do but you are a few tenths slower than I am. So you're making big power for a street car. Our combinations are similar. Same size motor and similar compression (I'm a little less). I have 4.30s and you have 4.56s. Same body style and weight. The only significant difference I see is I run a 727 vs your 4 spd. Perhaps the quickness you're looking for isn't in the carb? What's your 60'? What are your incrementals? It might be a simple fix like shocks or air pressure. Before you spend a grand a carb you may not need, I'd look at your combo. You are definitely making enough power to go quicker.

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: preddy] #1773824
03/10/15 08:42 PM
03/10/15 08:42 PM
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South Park, Pa.
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Quote:

I noticed you have the same MPH I do but you are a few tenths slower than I am. So you're making big power for a street car. Our combinations are similar. Same size motor and similar compression (I'm a little less). I have 4.30s and you have 4.56s. Same body style and weight. The only significant difference I see is I run a 727 vs your 4 spd. Perhaps the quickness you're looking for isn't in the carb? What's your 60'? What are your incrementals? It might be a simple fix like shocks or air pressure. Before you spend a grand a carb you may not need, I'd look at your combo. You are definitely making enough power to go quicker.




I realize that my 60' times are slow. I purposely spin the tires a little rather than dumping the clutch or slipping the clutch. I'm usually around a 1.55- 1.59. 1/8 mile is around 7.1-7.2 at just around 98-99 mph. It pulls hard in 4th gear showing almost 25 mph increase from the 1/8. My best 60' was a 1.50 at Columbus last year. Currently my 2 step is usually on 48-5200. If I come out higher, my 60's will drop, but I don't feel comfortable going much higher than 5200. I'd like to be able to drop my 1/8 mile times, but with my current combo, I can't see that happening.
I realize that the first 1/2 of the track for me is kind of slow, but it is what it is I guess....

Also, from re-reading your older post, you're running a 1050 down leg Quickfuel, right? I'm running the 1050AN version.

Last edited by 68LAR; 03/11/15 02:02 AM.

4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: 68LAR] #1773825
03/10/15 10:25 PM
03/10/15 10:25 PM
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LONG ISLAND
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I have a monster cncd big 4150 And it made 19hp less
then an sv1 RyanJ had a few yrs ago.
This was pretty much 6 pulls or So on each.

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: fishy340] #1773826
03/10/15 10:41 PM
03/10/15 10:41 PM
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Mark Whitener Offline
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Quote:

I have a monster cncd big 4150 And it made 19hp less
then an sv1 RyanJ had a few yrs ago.
This was pretty much 6 pulls or So on each.




The smallest SV1 flows about the same as an 1150 Dominator, right at 1400 CFM dry. Can't compare it to a 4150 style carb.


Mark Whitener
[url=www.racingfuelsystems.com[/url]
Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: 68LAR] #1773827
03/11/15 02:03 AM
03/11/15 02:03 AM
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Southern Maryland
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Quote:

I realize that my 60' times are slow. I purposely spin the tires a little rather than dumping the clutch or slipping the clutch. I'm usually around a 1.55- 1.59. 1/8 mile is around 7.1-7.2 at just around 98-99 mph. It pulls hard in 4th gear showing almost 25 mph increase from the 1/8. My best 60' was a 1.50 at Columbus last year. Currently my 2 step is usually on 48-5200. If I come out higher, my 60's will drop, but I don't feel comfortable going much higher than 5200. I'd like to be able to drop my 1/8 mile times, but with my current combo, I can't see that happening.
I realize that the first 1/2 of the track for me is kind of slow, but it is what it is I guess....




You definitely have mid 10 second MPH and a nice car. Agreed, it's tough with a stock style 4 speed and you're doing better than I could ever do with mine (my car is also originally a 4 speed car).

Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: preddy] #1773828
03/11/15 02:12 AM
03/11/15 02:12 AM
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South Park, Pa.
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I've been thinking about this and why you're quicker than me to the 1/8. I have no clue about what to do about the 60' times other than increase my 2 step rpms, but here is something else to consider. You're shifting one time, maybe two by half track. I'm already in fourth gear at least 100 feet before the 1/8 mile marker. I'm shifting three times to your one or two times. This has to worth several hundreds at least...
Thanks about my car. I kinda like yours tooo


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: 1050 CFM 4500 VRS. 4150 PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES [Re: sixpackgut] #1773829
03/11/15 09:20 AM
03/11/15 09:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:

Quote:

Could the additional flow be attributed to the intake, seeing as how both style carbs are rated at the same flow number???




There are so many factors, when running a Dom, you are usually increasing plenum volume so unless your adding volume under a 4150, its just not cut and dry answer. Even the same exact intake will have different characteristics. One opened up for a Dom may now have shorter runner lenght and bigger plenum and the engine may or may not like that



On a dyno, the bigger 4500 manifold and dominator carb will almost always make the most power. What runs the fastest at the track may be a different story. Have to be careful w/ manifold volume on a street/strip car. Too much and it'll really hurt the lowend grunt and the little you gain up top will never make up for it. Even my big 572" hemi was really hurt by the larger Indy 426-4 single 4500 manifold versus the Ray Barton single 4500 manifold I had run before. Ran great on the back half, but lost so much in the 60' it was still a tenth off. If I loosened up the converter more, added more gear, more spring pressure for the added rpm, I may have been able to use it...but that's not what I wanted at all.

Ever notice a lot of people run the 4150 Indy manifold w/ a 4500 adapter instead of the 4500 Indy manifold? Only problem w/ using the adapter is it's really tall. The short ones don't work well.

Only way to know is to try one and see, but that's an expensive test. Unless of course you borrow a carb from someone. I'd suggest an adapter for the dominator for your current manifold...if you can fit it.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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