Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: blowndart]
#1762837
02/27/15 12:59 PM
02/27/15 12:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,404 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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If you think you can't afford the Stage V heads, wait till you price the rocker arm assembly. There is nothing not expensive for a Hemi, even used parts. Now is the time to think over what you want to do, next thing you'll be thinking is : WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING!!!!!
That's true for the most part, but if you're patient you can find some deals for hemi parts occasionally. I bought some new K1 billet hemi rods for $130 and some new MP forged 528 pistons for $200 last year. The cranks are the same as a 440 crank and those aren't too bad. I paid $350 for a new Eagle 4340 4.15" crank a couple of years ago off ebay. Now finding a block for a reasonable price, that's tricky.
Finding used/cheap cranks, rods, & pistons isn't hard. It's the topend parts that are pricy for a hemi...even used stuff. Heads, rocker assemblies, and blocks are the 3 main pieces that you will pay for.
All of the parts and prices I listed were for new parts, not used. I agree there is no cheap way out for the rocker setup or block. I don't think the heads are too bad for the flow #s. I don't know of too many wedge heads that flow up to 400 CFM for $2300.
Blowndart...All I was implying is that other than the block, the bottom end of a hemi really costs no more than a wedge.
The heads ARE priced very reasonably to a wedge when you compare flow numbers.
As far as blocks....right now I think your only options for a new one are Keith Black or Indy, both aluminum. I'm not sure if you can actually get one from HP Performance right now? Older Mega Blocks and World blocks pop up from time to time but they are expensive since no one is making them anymore.
I never heard of the Stage V heads dropping seats? Not arguing, I just don't recall ever hearing that. I know some of the MP heads had that issue. W/ that said, I have MP heads on my 572 hemi...no problems and I've been running them since 2006. The MP heads are basically just aluminum versions of the factory iron heads. CNC ported by MCH they flow 430 cfm.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1762840
02/27/15 08:02 PM
02/27/15 08:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 965 Odessa, Fl
blowndart
super stock
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super stock
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Odessa, Fl
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Whats the though on the stock head, what will it flow, stock and mildly ported. Can it make 650-700 hp with some cubes, say over 500?
Yes they can.
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: blowndart]
#1762841
02/27/15 08:17 PM
02/27/15 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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It isn't the cubic inches, it's the heads' flow and how tight you're willing to turn the engine.
IIIRC there was a flow test published years ago, in some Chrysler magazine, where someone and it may have been Dvorak, flow tested a bunch of heads, then put a set of stock Hemi heads on the flowbench just for fun. I seem to remember the stock Hemi head flowing around 305cfm on the intake port, which should be good for 600 - 630 hp. But how tight do you have to spin a 426 to make the power?
That's why I say the Hemi heads needed a much larger shortblock under them to really work Back in the day, when Hemi and 440-6 were both being produced, on of my favorite car mags of the time road tested a Hemi and a 440-6 version of the same car. The Hemi was running 3.54s, the 440-6 had 3.91s. The 440-6 was quicker than the Hemi in the quarter, which surprised the writers. Now put a 500 cubic inch shortblock under the Hemi heads and it should kill everything with a stock head, and I mean everything.
With the numbers I have seen here, my recommendation would be to buy the Edelbrock or MP versions of the heads. Build the biggest shortblock you can afford. Then, if you need more power down the road, have the heads you have ported. There should be at least another hundred hp in that, maybe more.
I give this advice with the knowledge that I just bought a used car for daily driver that cost about as much as a set of Hemi rocker arms, shafts and whatever else they need to be usable.
R.
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: dogdays]
#1762842
02/27/15 10:46 PM
02/27/15 10:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 965 Odessa, Fl
blowndart
super stock
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super stock
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Odessa, Fl
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IIIRC there was a flow test published years ago, in some Chrysler magazine, where someone and it may have been Dvorak, flow tested a bunch of heads, then put a set of stock Hemi heads on the flowbench just for fun. I seem to remember the stock Hemi head flowing around 305cfm on the intake port, which should be good for 600 - 630 hp. R.
Either you are not remembering correctly, there was something wrong with the flow bench or there was something was wrong with that head. Stock heads with a good valve job should top out at 330-350 CFM. The heads on my car currently are unported factory iron heads from 1968 and on a 12:1 compression, roller cam 426 engine it was running mid to low 9's. Dvorak went through my heads prior to bolting them back on. This site has some head flow data for various heads including hemis http://www.mopar1.us/flow2.html
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: billohio]
#1762844
02/28/15 12:27 PM
02/28/15 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 965 Odessa, Fl
blowndart
super stock
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super stock
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Odessa, Fl
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My engine guy has a set of edelbrocks this week he was working on. Valve guide were too tight. I asked him what he thought of them and said you shouldn't have to do this to new heads
Did he say what the clearance was? I was planing to have mine checked before using them because I'm changing the springs for my cam anyways. This is not the first I've heard of Edelbrock heads in general being a little tight. That's not a deal beaker to me though. Much less to correct for being too tight then too loose .
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#1762846
02/28/15 03:17 PM
02/28/15 03:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315
Bend,OR USA
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that's a loaded question, be prepared for a load of answers!
this is where the money is on a hemi, the heads and the valve train.
it depends what kind of HP you are looking for. you can put an ootb set of mopar or now edelbrock heads on, and they will make for a decent package, but nowhere near what a hemi can do.
a ported set of stage V heads are the way to go imho.
I would like to make about 700-750HP or a little more.
I have built and dyno tested more than one pump gas 426 Street Hemi motor, that said, the better heads make more power per C.I. on the same fuel The last two street hemi motors I built and dyno tested for the same customer in SO CA made 630 HP, 471 C.I. 10.25 to 1 comp. ratio,4.310 bore with a 3.91 stroke,(all new Mopar parts OOTB, he was a lawyer and had a little money ) with the new cast iron OOTB Mopar replacement heads checked and prepped for street use, stock OEM inline 2x4 intake manifold with a set of OEM Carter 1966 street hemi carbs,I did a little tuning on it, not a bunch His other motor was a 526 C.I. with all new Mopar parts, 4.380 bore x 4.250 stroke, used Mopar D4 aluminum heads and a used OEM alumunim SS cross ram intake and new Holley Replacement carbs 11.3 to 1 comp. ratio for 91 octane CA pump gas. Stock rocker arm sets he had on both motors, not blue printed or having the rocker ratio corrected It made 680 HP They, both motors, had custom ground solid lifters, not rollers, street cams in them. I was really disappointed with that motor He wasn't Your deal with that C.I. and a decent set of new Stage V heads and rockers should to make north of 750 HP with two carbs really easy IHTHs Let us know what you decide
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1762847
02/28/15 09:55 PM
02/28/15 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
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Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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Cab, did you pick out these combination of parts or did the owner? You could have suggested that he do it right if was going to do it at all. That is why I dropped the stock rockers and I have a roller cam with pushrod oiling. My biggest mistake was only 9.5-1 compression but I got a super deal on the pistons so I am hoping that I can run on any 85 octane gas, NOT E-85. Tim Quote:
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that's a loaded question, be prepared for a load of answers!
this is where the money is on a hemi, the heads and the valve train.
it depends what kind of HP you are looking for. you can put an ootb set of mopar or now edelbrock heads on, and they will make for a decent package, but nowhere near what a hemi can do.
a ported set of stage V heads are the way to go imho.
I would like to make about 700-750HP or a little more.
I have built and dyno tested more than one pump gas 426 Street Hemi motor, that said, the better heads make more power per C.I. on the same fuel The last two street hemi motors I built and dyno tested for the same customer in SO CA made 630 HP, 471 C.I. 10.25 to 1 comp. ratio,4.310 bore with a 3.91 stroke,(all new Mopar parts OOTB, he was a lawyer and had a little money ) with the new cast iron OOTB Mopar replacement heads checked and prepped for street use, stock OEM inline 2x4 intake manifold with a set of OEM Carter 1966 street hemi carbs,I did a little tuning on it, not a bunch His other motor was a 526 C.I. with all new Mopar parts, 4.380 bore x 4.250 stroke, used Mopar D4 aluminum heads and a used OEM alumunim SS cross ram intake and new Holley Replacement carbs 11.3 to 1 comp. ratio for 91 octane CA pump gas. Stock rocker arm sets he had on both motors, not blue printed or having the rocker ratio corrected It made 680 HP They, both motors, had custom ground solid lifters, not rollers, street cams in them. I was really disappointed with that motor He wasn't Your deal with that C.I. and a decent set of new Stage V heads and rockers should to make north of 750 HP with two carbs really easy IHTHs Let us know what you decide
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2896003
03/05/21 11:44 AM
03/05/21 11:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348 Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
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Isle of Sheeps
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Is it OK to restart this thread (please)? As a hemi newbie I’m perplexed by MP hemi heads? I have an older MP head and a newer MP head which is a M head. They are slightly different outside and very different inside lol. The exhaust port is obviously revised and larger. I have opened up the earlier head to mimic it (as best as poss). This is what happens when projects take decades instead of years lol... Now I see the M2 is in circulation now! What’s the story on these babies?
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 03/05/21 11:46 AM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2896359
03/06/21 06:44 AM
03/06/21 06:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348 Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
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Many thanx Zippy! Not really a Zombie yet, just dead from the head down from a year of isolation... The problem is buying stuff in singles 'as and when you can afford them'. Should always save up faster and buy a PAIR of heads so if they have issues then they both have issues... Got a pile of wrecked hemi stuff here that I've collected for 35 years from failed projects and loose rod bolts etc... Anyways, folks who venture into the mysterious world of 'Hemi', please expect to be 'poor and puzzled' with equal amounts... I know I am, I spent more on two HEMI heads and valve gear than I spent on whole 440 engines...
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 03/06/21 06:47 AM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: Gtxxjon]
#2896394
03/06/21 09:49 AM
03/06/21 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,763 North Dakota
6PakBee
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I Live Here
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North Dakota
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Many thanx Zippy! Not really a Zombie yet, just dead from the head down from a year of isolation... The problem is buying stuff in singles 'as and when you can afford them'. Should always save up faster and buy a PAIR of heads so if they have issues then they both have issues... Got a pile of wrecked hemi stuff here that I've collected for 35 years from failed projects and loose rod bolts etc... Anyways, folks who venture into the mysterious world of 'Hemi', please expect to be 'poor and puzzled' with equal amounts... I know I am, I spent more on two HEMI heads and valve gear than I spent on whole 440 engines... You know what 'Hemi' means translated from the original Latin? "God it's easy to dump money into this motor!"
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: Gtxxjon]
#2896607
03/06/21 09:35 PM
03/06/21 09:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,915 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I have a good used pair of 110-M heads on the shelf if you want a matching pair.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2896712
03/07/21 11:11 AM
03/07/21 11:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348 Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
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WoW thats well COOL Mr ZIPPY! So after nearly 60 years of the 426 hemi, there still is no definitive answers to the 'hemi head' question. When there was ONLY 'IRON' then life was SIMPLES and it was a level 'playing field'. Now we have several 'street heads' that can easily do the job for most applications (I think)? Like most things in life , you BUY what is available 'on the day' then you have to live with it! Choice is a many 'toothed beast' and it can be hard to pick a winner. I have a Moparmate who studies everything in minute detail, asks everyone's opinion and still BUYS the wrong thing... Me I just 'go with my GUT' and hope that it will all be fine... Good numbers on the INDY heads Dragula 452 in (60 over 440) 318 out (stock SB)...
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 03/08/21 07:14 AM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: What set of 426 Hemi heads to buy for street & strip?
[Re: Gtxxjon]
#2896999
03/08/21 07:17 AM
03/08/21 07:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348 Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
enthusiast
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Isle of Sheeps
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So as per the INDY head numbers its... 1.5 times the flow in, than out, (460-320) will make in excess of 820 hp... But I will will be using twin turbos, so I'm guessing that 300cfm, 'in and out' will be fine...?
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 03/08/21 07:19 AM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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