Re: epoxy primer
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1755151
02/15/15 05:47 PM
02/15/15 05:47 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545 USA
hudsonhornet7x
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545
USA
|
Here is an easy way to explain it:
Collision shops are all about speed- grind, fill, etch, prime, seal, color, clear.
Resto shops are all about longevity- Blast, clean, epoxy, fill, epoxy again, prime, seal, color, clear.
Collsion shops hate epoxy because it is waaay to slow for them.
I personally believe epoxy is best for restoration work.
Last edited by hudsonhornet7x; 02/15/15 05:48 PM.
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1755152
02/15/15 05:54 PM
02/15/15 05:54 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545 USA
hudsonhornet7x
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545
USA
|
A video for you to watch: This video runs a little long but it shows how well epoxy sticks to steel, and how well filler sticks to epoxy. On the first test, the steel was treated with acid and not properly cleaned- the results speak for themselves. The other tests show how good the system can be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yA8q4K-_Bo
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: srt]
#1755154
02/15/15 06:41 PM
02/15/15 06:41 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545 USA
hudsonhornet7x
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545
USA
|
Quote:
When you say "flash off" are you referring to the solvent based wax and grease remover evaporating? I like that you are suggesting redundancy in de-greasing. I have adopted the process that areas being blasted or sanded are washed with dawn and wiped down with solvent based wax and grease remover, and then again after blasting or sanding. Another thing is to keep hands off any panels that are being worked on. Also worth mentioning is to make sure that your top-coats are compatible with primers/sealers used.
Very good info.
Yep , both water based and solvent borne wax and grease removers need time to flash before any painting process begins.
I like to use the water first, because the alcohol in it helps to evaporate any moisture left over from washing, them move on to the solvent cleaner.
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: Dodge33]
#1755155
02/15/15 07:19 PM
02/15/15 07:19 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,160 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,160
Mass
|
If I'm using Epoxy Primer/sealer (I usually prefer acid etchant eg. Dupont's Vari Prime) sandblast the vehicle's metal usually with coal slag/Black Beauty, vacuum/blow off dust, wipe down with a solvent, usually acetone, perform the necessary metal work/filler in a timely fashion, then epoxy prime/seal or acid etchant, then prime block sand, prime, block sand, prime, block sand until the surface is flat/straight, then prime and block sand the primer base down to approx 600 grit finish, then top coat whether it be single stage or BC/CC, then colorsand down to 2000/3000 grit finish/polish
Mike
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: 340cpe]
#1755157
02/15/15 08:50 PM
02/15/15 08:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545 USA
hudsonhornet7x
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545
USA
|
Quote:
Isn't the 2k Primer by dupont an epoxy primer? I know it is a two part system. Any input?
2K simply refers to a two component system, in this case primer and activator. A 1 K system would be the cheapie aerosol products.
DuPont's epoxy for automotive use is the following:
2510S 2540S 2570S 2580CR- Chromate added for additional corrosion protection
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: 340cpe]
#1755161
02/15/15 11:34 PM
02/15/15 11:34 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,528 Southeast PA
5wndwcpe
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,528
Southeast PA
|
x's 2 on the SPI Epoxy.
Though not a student of his, I follow Hudsons procedure to a "T" and it has always yielded great results.
1968 GTX hardtop 1968 Sport Satellite Convertible 383/4spd 1933 Plymouth coupe 2002 Ram 2500 oil burner 4x4 2015 Grand Cherokee 2013 Challenger 1957 Chrysler Saratoga
Man...I need a bigger freakin' garage.
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: 5wndwcpe]
#1755162
02/15/15 11:44 PM
02/15/15 11:44 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
|
I use SPI also, have been for a few years now... way better than PPG which everyone seems to love. Only part I don't like is in the cold months, it's hard to keep my garage above 65 degrees as long as they recommend for spraying it. I've used their universal clear also, nice stuff too
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert 340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z 66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1755163
02/16/15 04:36 AM
02/16/15 04:36 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902 Seattle, WA
rss
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
|
Quote:
Clean steel with a water based wax and grease remover, then with solvent based wax and grease remover.
What product(s) are you using for the water based wax and grease remover?
Thanks
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: rss]
#1755164
02/16/15 09:13 AM
02/16/15 09:13 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545 USA
hudsonhornet7x
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,545
USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Clean steel with a water based wax and grease remover, then with solvent based wax and grease remover.
What product(s) are you using for the water based wax and grease remover?
Thanks
The best I have used is SPI 700, and 710.
Here is a link to the product pages. Scroll to the second page about halfway down:
http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/#!products/c19pa
|
|
|
Re: epoxy primer
[Re: srt]
#1755166
02/18/15 07:50 PM
02/18/15 07:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,239 Chicago, IL
PLUM_72
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,239
Chicago, IL
|
Not a pro but have plenty of projects under my belt that have turned out well.
One way to answer the epoxy question depends on how you work your project. If you have the car stripped, blasted whatever, something should go on the bare metal ASAP. Epoxy is a good answer. Then you can take the car panel by panel and work it over on any time table.
I don't get caught up in the window time of epoxy recoat/cure. To me that's for the guys doing stuff very quickly.
After the epoxy has been sprayed it might be weeks, months or years before I get to the specific part. In which case, I will block the epoxy with 80grit, add light filler on top in spots where needed. Areas needing heavy filler I will abrade the surface with a grinder. After filler use a polyester primer like slick sand or if you don't need that kind of fill, a 2K urethane primer surfacer. Each will stick well to the 80grit sand scratches in the epoxy. Small bare metal break throughs say the size of a golf ball don't bother me. Most primers can stick to bare metal like that without another product.
I have been using cheaper primers as of late with good success. The Eastwood/Kirker epoxy is nice stuff, lays down well, is cheap and very sandable after cure. With 2K I've used the Eastwood/Kirker 2K Urethane primer (Perfect Prime). Add a sealer on top and use the paint brand of your choice.
Follow the tech sheets for the product you use, if there are questions, call/email the tech department for the brand you're using. Where a lot of people have issues is pushing the recoat or curing envelope with incompatible products.
1972 Dodge Challenger
|
|
|
|
|