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4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? #175421
12/26/08 05:30 PM
12/26/08 05:30 PM
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Arkansas
340727dart Offline OP
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I'm doing a four speed conversion on my 340 Dart Sport. The last thing I need for the swap is the clutch assembly.
I'm trying to decide between a Zoom and a Ram set up.
Both are priced about the same ($345+-).
What are some opinions about each make?

Thanks.

Last edited by 340727dart; 12/26/08 05:51 PM.

Your life is not my fault.
My life is none of your business.

Speech is free only if you agree with those in control.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175422
12/26/08 05:55 PM
12/26/08 05:55 PM
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East Coast, NJ
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fig426 Offline
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I had a zoom,,, the same one you had just listed a minute ago,,, and genaded it the first time out within the first mile. Absolute nightmare. I went to a centerforce dual friction.. so far so good but only 160 miles on it.


Chris from New Jersey
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175423
12/26/08 06:07 PM
12/26/08 06:07 PM
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Arizona
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68CoronetRT Offline
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A lot depends upon the application.
Is it a street car only?
How much HP and Torque?
Here's a link: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post4799781

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 68CoronetRT] #175424
12/26/08 06:30 PM
12/26/08 06:30 PM
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Arkansas
340727dart Offline OP
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It's a street car only, but I put only about 1500 miles a year on it.
I've never had it on a dyno but, Desktop Dyno says my combination should have about 415 horsepower and 430 ft lbs of torque.
It's got 3.91 rear gears.
The clutch set up will be bolted to the RAM steel billet flywheel I got for Christmas.


Your life is not my fault.
My life is none of your business.

Speech is free only if you agree with those in control.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175425
12/26/08 06:45 PM
12/26/08 06:45 PM
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Northern MN
1E2C Offline
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When I did the 4 speed conversion behind the mild 360 in my 83 Ram I started with a Ram Powergrip. It worked well for the most part, but was a little tricky sometimes starting out with a heavy trailer on behind. When I dropped the tranny after ~ 60K miles the clutch was down to I guessed less than another 10K miles so I changed it out while the getting was good. Replaced it with a CF Dual Friction and really like it - the pedal's a little easier and starts with a heavy load are much easier. Never had any issues with slippage on either but the CF was more user friendly. Next time I replace a clutch I expect to use the CF again.
Mike

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175426
12/26/08 07:03 PM
12/26/08 07:03 PM
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Maine
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jerseybud Offline
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Maine
Zoom is chinese made junk. Its a purple painted generic clutch basically.
Consider a US manufacturer since they do a good job in this department: Hays, McLeod, Centerforce or even Luk, which is an OEM supplier but good for the price.
I would not even consider a Zoom, and there are people here that will tell you about the failures

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: jerseybud] #175427
12/26/08 07:32 PM
12/26/08 07:32 PM
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California City, CA
dart440 Offline
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California City, CA
McLeod, Centerforce


When you work on Spaceships for a living, how bad can a workday be?
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: dart440] #175428
12/26/08 09:14 PM
12/26/08 09:14 PM
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up yours
Supercuda Offline
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Ran a Sachs clutch in my Diplomat for about 50k miles.

Never an issue, even taught my daughter to drive in that car.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175429
12/26/08 10:14 PM
12/26/08 10:14 PM
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Missouri
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MY340 Offline
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Missouri
Nobody likes Hays anymore?

I had one in my Duster for 8+ years with no problems. I believe it was the street/strip version.


1970 FE5 Duster 360/904/3.91's SOLD 1973 TB3 SpaceDuster 340/4spd/4.10's SOLD Moparless for now but when the opportunity is right I'll have another one.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175430
12/26/08 10:20 PM
12/26/08 10:20 PM
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iowa
copchaser Offline
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iowa
I ran a RAM clutch in my 68 Coronet, mild 318 with 3:91 gears, it lasted 6 weeks, then I stuck in a zoom, it lasted 41/2 weeks, spent the money and installed a center force, it's still in there and it's been there in there sence 1997. When I built the 535 for my 70 GTX 2 years ago I installed a center force, it lasted 3 days, then I made it cost me and installed a McLoed duel disk, no more clutch problems. The Mcloed see's 900 horse on a regular basis.

Last edited by copchaser; 12/26/08 10:22 PM.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: copchaser] #175431
12/26/08 11:09 PM
12/26/08 11:09 PM
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South Texas
badchallenger Offline
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South Texas
Centerforce is the way to go dont ask me how I know


U.S. Navy Sea Bees (Retired now) U.S. Army Civil Service NDT
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175432
12/26/08 11:31 PM
12/26/08 11:31 PM
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S. Il. U.S.A.
5spdcuda Offline
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Had a zoom in my '66 street hemi nearly 30 years ago. Pretty crappy IMO. No reason to think anything's changed. I run a 10.95 McLeod diaphragm with the overcenter spring in place and an adjustable positive stop on the clutch pedal in the Cuda. This gives a light modern feel and the stop prevents overcentering the clutch diaphragm. I use an organic disc. I used slicks a couple of times and it held, but I doubt that it would take it for long. Street tires even grippy ones aren't any problem. I've got over 35,000 aggressive miles on it now and it's still going strong.

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 5spdcuda] #175433
12/27/08 10:47 AM
12/27/08 10:47 AM
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Ohio
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theclutcher Offline
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had good luck as others did with your std B&B clutch with an organic disc.
Hays worked for me, run one of thier slippers now modded by Tim Hyatt
go to umtrdragrace.com

Last edited by theclutcher; 12/27/08 10:48 AM.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175434
12/27/08 10:50 AM
12/27/08 10:50 AM
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Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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I've got a RAM Powergrip HD in my Valiant (300hp/340tq) and I love it. Nice even apply, and can take anything my engine will throw at it. FWIW, their tech support folks have been great to work with, and have responded to all my questions about getting a custom disk made up for when I swap to the Toyota 5-speed down the road. I wouldn't hesitate to get another RAM clutch in the future.

Clair

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175435
12/27/08 11:36 AM
12/27/08 11:36 AM
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
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Use anything BUT a diaphram (Chivvy) type clutch, go with the original borg and beck style. I have used Ram, Zoom, and Hayes for the last 30 years and I usually go back to Hays. I have a friend who rebuilds the pressure plates for me so I don't have to buy them anymore.


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: Clair_Davis] #175436
12/27/08 11:38 AM
12/27/08 11:38 AM
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Missouri
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MY340 Offline
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Ted,
Due to your advanced years you might want to inquire about the amount of pedal pressure/force to engage the clutch on each brand.

My Hays clutch setup was fairly stiff when compared to a standard clutch.

Just looking after the well being of your left leg and knee here.


1970 FE5 Duster 360/904/3.91's SOLD 1973 TB3 SpaceDuster 340/4spd/4.10's SOLD Moparless for now but when the opportunity is right I'll have another one.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175437
12/27/08 12:28 PM
12/27/08 12:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 197
SB
D
Duster426 Offline
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SB
CENTERFORCE dual friction for my Duster

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: Rhinodart] #175438
12/27/08 01:42 PM
12/27/08 01:42 PM
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Wichita,KS
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Blakcharger440 Offline
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Wichita,KS
Quote:

Use anything BUT a diaphram (Chivvy) type clutch, go with the original borg and beck style. I have used Ram, Zoom, and Hayes for the last 30 years and I usually go back to Hays. I have a friend who rebuilds the pressure plates for me so I don't have to buy them anymore.




Is there any reason to go with the Borg and Beck style over the diaphram type or is that just personal preference? I dont know which is best for what reasons so I am just asking.

I am building a 512 RB engine that will hopefully put out 550 to 600HP and alot of torque. Which style would be better?

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: Blakcharger440] #175439
12/27/08 03:18 PM
12/27/08 03:18 PM
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Chicago Burbs
sthemi Offline
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Chicago Burbs
The diaphram clutches were notorius for sticking to the floor when shifting at high RPM, causing a missed shift and possible engine damage.
They have improved since the old days but, why take a chance.
I bought a Ram set up for my road Runner. They had good tech support and average prices.

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: sthemi] #175440
12/27/08 03:52 PM
12/27/08 03:52 PM
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Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
I think a Mcleod B&B plate with a street/strip rag disc should do the trick.
Jamie Passon will set you up with a good Mcleod clutch at a fair price.
Gus


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: Rhinodart] #175441
12/27/08 05:14 PM
12/27/08 05:14 PM
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Madison Wi
NTOLERANCE Offline
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Quote:

Use anything BUT a diaphram (Chivvy) type clutch, go with the original borg and beck style. I




Yepp, yepp, yepp. I have had diaphram clutches that ust flat out wouldnt work. Install a B&B and youre back to Driving a B&B plate with a sintered iron clutch disc is alot of "fun" on the street.

Take personal experiences with a grain of salt when it comes to brands. Never know how someone set one up, and used (or abused) it.


I used to care but....... things have changed
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: NTOLERANCE] #175442
12/27/08 06:18 PM
12/27/08 06:18 PM
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Answering the call of the wild
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ThermoQuad Offline
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You still can't beat this set up for the money and performance. Handles 400 rwhp with ease
Rochester Clutch and Brake
585-232-3717

4904847-Picture006.jpg (176 downloads)
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: MY340] #175443
12/27/08 07:05 PM
12/27/08 07:05 PM

A
Anonymous
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Quote:

Nobody likes Hays anymore?

I had one in my Duster for 8+ years with no problems. I believe it was the street/strip version.


Same here, I've had a street/strip Hays forever. They may be old school but so am I. 340 4-speed 4:10

Last edited by minihemi340; 12/27/08 07:07 PM.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? #175444
12/27/08 07:20 PM
12/27/08 07:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,285
Ohio
6
64dodge572 Offline
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Ohio
We stock Centerforce, Mcleod & Hays,give us a call!

Thanks, Wayne


Brewers Performance Inc.
4-speed transmission and parts specialists
PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259
FAX 937-947-4419
www.brewersperformance.com
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 64dodge572] #175445
12/27/08 08:00 PM
12/27/08 08:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,085
The Wet Coast, Canada
megajoltman Offline
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The Wet Coast, Canada
CENTERFORCE dual friction was the one I used, very happy with it.


1969 Dart 383/727/D60

CTD Ram 4x4 Mega Cab

Procharged 350Z
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: megajoltman] #175446
12/28/08 09:27 AM
12/28/08 09:27 AM
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Montana
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Posest Offline
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Montana
I went with centerforce in my demon.340 and 3:91 gears. Love it

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: Posest] #175447
12/28/08 10:09 AM
12/28/08 10:09 AM
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SoCal
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jake4cars Offline
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SoCal
I had a Center force dual friction in my very healthy 360 Duster with 4.10 gears and absolutely loved it!

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: jake4cars] #175448
12/28/08 10:17 AM
12/28/08 10:17 AM
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Posts: 1,642
Chicago, Illinois
donscuda Offline
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Chicago, Illinois
i use a Centerforce Dual Disc setup in my '70 Cuda with a built 360, and 3.90 gears. I've had for a couple of years now, and I haven't had any problems with it...

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 5spdcuda] #175449
12/28/08 10:30 AM
12/28/08 10:30 AM
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West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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Quote:


....I run a 10.95 McLeod diaphragm with the overcenter spring in place and an adjustable positive stop on the clutch pedal in the Cuda. This gives a light modern feel and the stop prevents overcentering the clutch diaphragm.....




Do you have an installed picture of your Positive Stop?


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: ThermoQuad] #175450
12/28/08 11:18 AM
12/28/08 11:18 AM
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Posts: 2,734
Charlotte, NC
4
446acuda Offline
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Charlotte, NC
Quote:

You still can't beat this set up for the money and performance. Handles 400 rwhp with ease
Rochester Clutch and Brake
585-232-3717


That looks a lot like Ram's sintered bronze 6000 series disc.

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 446acuda] #175451
12/28/08 02:10 PM
12/28/08 02:10 PM
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Answering the call of the wild
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ThermoQuad Offline
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It may but that is a custom disc manufactured by RC&B. There are even better friction materials than what is in the picture. The 10.95 p-p in the pic is a 2800lb clutch that currently resides behind a 400 rear wheel hp stroker and the pedal effort is easy.

For the custom p-p you get to decide how much pressure you want ie 2200lbs, 2600 lbs etc. Each p-p is carefully and individually manufactured, and the person who does the work has over 25 yrs experience. Being around since 1924 allows RC&B to build clutches on fixturing that is precise and exact, unlike the mass produced clutches of today.

Too many variables for one size fits all.
If you have an off the shelf car then use an off the shelf one size fits all clutch.

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: Duster426] #175452
12/28/08 02:20 PM
12/28/08 02:20 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Omaha Ne
Quote:

CENTERFORCE dual friction for my Duster






We have installed a butt load of centerforce dual frictions with ZERO issues.

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: MY340] #175453
12/28/08 08:55 PM
12/28/08 08:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,144
Arkansas
340727dart Offline OP
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340727dart  Offline OP
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Quote:

Ted,
Due to your advanced years you might want to inquire about the amount of pedal pressure/force to engage the clutch on each brand.

My Hays clutch setup was fairly stiff when compared to a standard clutch.

Just looking after the well being of your left leg and knee here.




Easy now Brian. You're right there with me as far as age.
Besides, I've already removed the overcenter spring from the pedal, so that should make the pedal a bit easier.


Your life is not my fault.
My life is none of your business.

Speech is free only if you agree with those in control.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #175454
12/29/08 01:50 AM
12/29/08 01:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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So Cal
Quote:

I think a Mcleod B&B plate with a street/strip rag disc should do the trick.
Jamie Passon will set you up with a good Mcleod clutch at a fair price.
Gus







Just a couple of comments..
a. Make sure you have the proper Z-bar so the fork push rod runs parallel to the bellhousing
b. Add a torque strap, a big help for keeping the Z-bar and nylon bearings together

Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: Sinitro] #175455
12/29/08 11:42 AM
12/29/08 11:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,144
Arkansas
340727dart Offline OP
master
340727dart  Offline OP
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Arkansas
Quote:

b. Add a torque strap, a big help for keeping the Z-bar and nylon bearings together




My Dart has the spool engine mounts. They seem to hold the engine tight.
Is a torque strap necessary with those types of mounts?


Your life is not my fault.
My life is none of your business.

Speech is free only if you agree with those in control.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: 340727dart] #175456
12/29/08 12:03 PM
12/29/08 12:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
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Mick70RR Offline
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Birmingham, England
I use a McLeod B&B style pressure plate and a 12 inch 800 series disc behind the stroker. Brewer's Performance have them in stock, good company to deal with too.


1970 Road Runner 505 cid MCH CNC ported Stealth heads MP 528 camshaft 4 speed GV overdrive 11.98 @ 117 on street treads
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: ThermoQuad] #175457
12/29/08 03:09 PM
12/29/08 03:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340 Offline
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Wheatfield, NY
Quote:

It may but that is a custom disc manufactured by RC&B. There are even better friction materials than what is in the picture. The 10.95 p-p in the pic is a 2800lb clutch that currently resides behind a 400 rear wheel hp stroker and the pedal effort is easy.

For the custom p-p you get to decide how much pressure you want ie 2200lbs, 2600 lbs etc. Each p-p is carefully and individually manufactured, and the person who does the work has over 25 yrs experience. Being around since 1924 allows RC&B to build clutches on fixturing that is precise and exact, unlike the mass produced clutches of today.

Too many variables for one size fits all.
If you have an off the shelf car then use an off the shelf one size fits all clutch.




I agree, give Sammy Jr. a call at Rochester clutch and brake. I had a custom one built for my 600hp 570Tq stroker. and it cost less than what you listed above. You won't be sorry. Here is a link to the website: http://www.rochesterclutch.com/racing.shtml

Here is a pic of my clutch.... Yeah diaphrams are for Women and Chivvy's huh ...

Notice the fully balanced marks.

4908631-EngineDyno026.jpg (103 downloads)
Last edited by Cuda340; 12/29/08 03:10 PM.
Re: 4 speed drivers...what's your favorite clutch? [Re: Cuda340] #175458
12/30/08 02:42 AM
12/30/08 02:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,238
Nevada
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dezduster Offline
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Nevada
I have used 4 Center Force dual friction clutches.
The first was in my 84 dodge half ton 440 powered truck. It out lasted many drive train components, tires and 10 to 15 years later it started slipping. I abused this clutch by slipping it like you would a dirt bike clutch,truck pulling, hill climbing, mud bogging and generally just being mean to it. When it quite me I bought another, Its still in there. When I specked a clutch for my 422 cubed small block Duster 3.23 gears and a TKO 5 speed I went with the surprise C/F D/F in a corvette size OH and an aluminum flywheel. I am no less mean to this clutch. When I changed to a 4 speed in our family's toy truck meaning everyone drives it YEP you guessed it C/F D/F. Im not an advertiser I wont brag on a product unless it can with stand a significant amount of abuse... C/F D/F It sucks changing clutches so I buy what has worked for me..
If you want to know what breaks PM me ILL tell you what I have broke and what didnt work for me.

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