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Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: amxautox] #1808532
04/21/15 12:03 PM
04/21/15 12:03 PM
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Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels Offline OP
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Originally Posted By amxautox
Originally Posted By Tomswheels
This is why I'm not a numbers matching guy.... I just want to race!
Is that why you have numbers, that don't match, on the doors?



work laugh2


stirthepot


I should have known it was going to be a bad day when someone stole my number!

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Mopar Mitch] #1808534
04/21/15 12:04 PM
04/21/15 12:04 PM
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Escondido CA USA
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Originally Posted By Mopar Mitch
Tom -- since you're car is primarily a smooth-pavement autocross purpose-built car, I highly suggest you get bigger TBs (~1.18 at the minimum, as well as eventually try 1.22, 1.24.. don't make quick decisions.... work with them for a few events/or a season or two, as well as perhaps stiffen the rear leafs... stiffer shocks, bigger sway bars, balance the weight at the corners in competition-ready weight.. with the driver and the approximate load (fuel) you'd be typically running.... it becomes a complete package to be the goal. Remember... your car runs on smooth flat surfaces and is autocross competition intended. Your tires are saying "help me stick so stiffen me up.... prevent excessive lift/dive".


Makes since Mitch, I think bigger Torsion bars are the next logical step. On an A-body, just how jarring is the ride with a 1.18?

Last edited by Tomswheels; 04/21/15 12:18 PM.
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1808547
04/21/15 12:33 PM
04/21/15 12:33 PM
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NW Chicago suburban area
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Tom... If you're concerned with ride (such as stiff), then forget it. As I said, you are running on smooth surfaces during the autocross events... no need to be concerned about ride ... its not bad, its not unbarable to drive on the street (highway driving is best!).. In pylon racing, the car needs to be as flat as possible for best transient response... leaning takes away from the transient response... look at the C/Prepared cars.. the top cars in the country run far more stiffer setups than what you and I have.

Brian Barcia runs 1.18 TBs on his GT1/Vintage W2W road race 67 BCuda fastback... he could still go stiffer, but, he's balanced the stup and adjusts his driving accordingly.... he may eventually make future changes, such as 1.22 tbs from FF.

John Sandberg runs 1.14 tbs on his original owner street 67 BCuda fastback Formula S car.. ride is great (245-50-16 f/r, stiffened leafs, konis).

Needless to say, when driving on the "street", we have to avoid pot-holes, etc.. and choose the road that offer the smoother conditions. A few bumps here and there are barable, but we always want to avoid harsh roads. Highways are much smoother, in general, than "streets".


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1808579
04/21/15 01:14 PM
04/21/15 01:14 PM
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On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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Originally Posted By Tomswheels
Originally Posted By amxautox
Originally Posted By Tomswheels
This is why I'm not a numbers matching guy.... I just want to race!
Is that why you have numbers, that don't match, on the doors?



work laugh2


stirthepot


I should have known it was going to be a bad day when someone stole my number!
Ya that sucks, stolen numbers. grin One day at an autocross I 'blew the number off' the door of the SS/T, (my pickup). laugh2 The course worker had to bring it over to me. Talk about a 'high speed' run! Oh ya, the numbers were decales on magnetic rubber. :-)

Last edited by amxautox; 04/21/15 07:04 PM.

Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Mopar Mitch] #1808732
04/21/15 05:02 PM
04/21/15 05:02 PM
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Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels Offline OP
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Ya more concerned with going so stiff that the car feels like it's jarring itself violently on every little imperfection. When I forget to turn the shocks back to soft and drive back from track on full stiff its borderline uncomfortable. I'm hoping that with a 1.18ish bar and the shocks on soft it would still seem "street able".

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1809064
04/21/15 11:23 PM
04/21/15 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted By Tomswheels
Ya more concerned with going so stiff that the car feels like it's jarring itself violently on every little imperfection. When I forget to turn the shocks back to soft and drive back from track on full stiff its borderline uncomfortable. I'm hoping that with a 1.18ish bar and the shocks on soft it would still seem "street able".


At Hotchkis East, they couldn't believe how smooth the ride was in my Dart with 1.18's. That was with the shocks on the middle setting. I drove it a little bit and agreed, the ride was very good for that size bar.

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1809099
04/22/15 12:01 AM
04/22/15 12:01 AM
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Nebraska
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Good to know, I ordered a set of 1.18's about 3:00 PM today lol! Dick has a couple sets on the shelf.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1809358
04/22/15 12:47 PM
04/22/15 12:47 PM
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NW Chicago suburban area
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Tom -- the ride with stiffer TBs area not jarring stiff with every nick in the road... there are ways to smoth the ride such as by simply adjusting the tire psi to a lower amount than what would be used during competition runs; or, for the "street", use a taller sidewall tire (I have 255-60-15 front, 275-60-15 rear for the "Street" cruising days).... and my 255-50-16 f/r HPDE/HSAX tires are just fine on the street/hwy (30 f, 28 r psi... competition 44 f, 40 r psi).

Ask anyone who has driven my car (1.24 TBs) on the street/hwy, as well as raced it, and they will tell you that the ride is fine... its not bad at all.. very enjoyable... very flat in handling and transient response.... very little lift/dive or lean. My Konis do a great job with the setup... I've played a lot with their adjustability over the past years to my satisfaction... granted, today there are other choices in preferred multi-adjustable shocks, and I'm actually considering them.

For the A-bodies, being lighter than the b/e bods, in my opinion from those i know with A-bods, a~1.14-1.18 TB is not a harsh ride at all on the street/hwy.

I've said many times before... don't be afraid of larger TBs... you'll realize any increase made over the factory stock size will be an improvement, then... if you start small you'll only come to realize that you probably should've gone larger.

If driving over rough roads/surfaces is the norm, then use a little softer TB (1.0~1.1), but if the typical and intended driving is on smooth non-bumpy surfaces (AX parking lots/airports, W2W road race courses, etc), then step up.. progressively you'll see the desired results.


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Mopar Mitch] #1809839
04/22/15 11:53 PM
04/22/15 11:53 PM
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hey mitch what is the spring rate of those 1.24's? The biggest firm feel list on their website is 1.18 (WR 338) which equals to about 6kg.

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: dangina] #1810244
04/23/15 04:24 PM
04/23/15 04:24 PM
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The 1.24" TB for E/B bodies ia rated at 425 # /inch. They were available from a company called California Moparts/Suspension back in the 80s... ahead of their time, unfortunately they went out-of-business.

FF can make 1.20, 1.22, 1.24 upon speacial request... check with them... last I knew (~1-year ago) they had some 1.22 aside from a small production run.

Even at 425 # /inch, these are not as stiff as you might think. The factory Dodge/Plymouth TransAm cars used larger TBs in their race cars.... ~1.45 diamter (makes the 1.24 pretty small and weak by comparison).

The factory ABE hex openings are 1.25, thus, 1.24 is largest to fit ... unless changing the hex opening to a larger one, such as C-body or truck size.


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Mopar Mitch] #1811826
04/25/15 08:17 PM
04/25/15 08:17 PM
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Escondido CA USA
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Originally Posted By Mopar Mitch
Tom -- the ride with stiffer TBs area not jarring stiff with every nick in the road... there are ways to smoth the ride such as by simply adjusting the tire psi to a lower amount than what would be used during competition runs; or, for the "street", use a taller sidewall tire (I have 255-60-15 front, 275-60-15 rear for the "Street" cruising days).... and my 255-50-16 f/r HPDE/HSAX tires are just fine on the street/hwy (30 f, 28 r psi... competition 44 f, 40 r psi).

Ask anyone who has driven my car (1.24 TBs) on the street/hwy, as well as raced it, and they will tell you that the ride is fine... its not bad at all.. very enjoyable... very flat in handling and transient response.... very little lift/dive or lean. My Konis do a great job with the setup... I've played a lot with their adjustability over the past years to my satisfaction... granted, today there are other choices in preferred multi-adjustable shocks, and I'm actually considering them.

For the A-bodies, being lighter than the b/e bods, in my opinion from those i know with A-bods, a~1.14-1.18 TB is not a harsh ride at all on the street/hwy.

I've said many times before... don't be afraid of larger TBs... you'll realize any increase made over the factory stock size will be an improvement, then... if you start small you'll only come to realize that you probably should've gone larger.

If driving over rough roads/surfaces is the norm, then use a little softer TB (1.0~1.1), but if the typical and intended driving is on smooth non-bumpy surfaces (AX parking lots/airports, W2W road race courses, etc), then step up.. progressively you'll see the desired results.



Great Mitch, thanks, that's what I wanted to hear!

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1811832
04/25/15 08:24 PM
04/25/15 08:24 PM
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So my next race was the Goodguys Del Mar Autocross. This is usually one of my favorite events as we get really top-level competition with some really good driver/car combos. The course is jammed into a small area of the parking lot, so it ends up being a drag race, brake slam, u-turn event. that being said I always did better here in the past than the old 69 Barracuda had a right to. I should have known I was going to have a bad day when the officials deemed my new Bridgestone RE-71R front tires illegal, since they didn't have treadwear printed on them. So I had the wife schlep my old Hankooks over, one with quite a selection of flatspots...

image.jpgimage.jpg
Last edited by Tomswheels; 04/25/15 08:33 PM.
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1811835
04/25/15 08:30 PM
04/25/15 08:30 PM
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Ugh. This is the last time I will complain about the A833 OD gearing, cause I'm putting in a "normal" A833 next month, but it was terrible. Too fast for 1st or lugging in 2nd. I finally got frustrated and started shifting back down to 1st on every corner. Ran my fastest time with 12 shifts on a 60 second course. Three Mustangs I usually beat at our local SCCA events finished 5th, 8th, and 10th. I finished a hugely disappointing 12th out of 36 cars...

image.jpgimage.jpg
Last edited by Tomswheels; 04/25/15 11:35 PM.
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1812068
04/26/15 01:00 AM
04/26/15 01:00 AM
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So who was the little darling that disqualified your tires? Does he drive a Camaro or a Mustang?


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: 72Swinger] #1812259
04/26/15 12:41 PM
04/26/15 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted By 72Swinger
So who was the little darling that disqualified your tires? Does he drive a Camaro or a Mustang?


Actually it was the Goodguys tech guy. I can understand they have rules, but if the SCCA can figure out theses tires are 200 treadwear, Gooodguys should also...

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1812263
04/26/15 12:52 PM
04/26/15 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted By Tomswheels
Originally Posted By 72Swinger
So who was the little darling that disqualified your tires? Does he drive a Camaro or a Mustang?


Actually it was the Goodguys tech guy. I can understand they have rules, but if the SCCA can figure out theses tires are 200 treadwear, Gooodguys should also...


Couldn't you have just googled it for him on your phone? It should have only taken about a minute or two.

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: MuuMuu101] #1812276
04/26/15 01:17 PM
04/26/15 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted By MuuMuu101
Originally Posted By Tomswheels
Originally Posted By 72Swinger
So who was the little darling that disqualified your tires? Does he drive a Camaro or a Mustang?


Actually it was the Goodguys tech guy. I can understand they have rules, but if the SCCA can figure out theses tires are 200 treadwear, Gooodguys should also...


Couldn't you have just googled it for him on your phone? It should have only taken about a minute or two.


Did that Samy, but he said "If it's not on the tire, it's not legal". $560 wasted, at least as far as Goodguys is concerned...

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1812485
04/26/15 07:29 PM
04/26/15 07:29 PM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Originally Posted By Tomswheels
Originally Posted By 72Swinger
So who was the little darling that disqualified your tires? Does he drive a Camaro or a Mustang?


Actually it was the Goodguys tech guy. I can understand they have rules, but if the SCCA can figure out theses tires are 200 treadwear, Gooodguys should also...


what tires are you running?

Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1812760
04/27/15 12:32 AM
04/27/15 12:32 AM
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Escondido CA USA
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I had to run my Hankook RS-3, but the tires I was going to run in front were a pair of new Bridgestone RE-71R. They were so new they hadn't determined treadwear when they were produced so treadwear was blank on tire. Now they are officially rated 200.

image.jpg
Last edited by Tomswheels; 04/27/15 12:33 AM.
Re: 67 Valiant budget built to race 2015 [Re: Tomswheels] #1817103
05/02/15 03:17 PM
05/02/15 03:17 PM
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So after getting beat by 3 Mustang guys at Goodguys, and one at Hotchkis, it was time to get back to racing in the afternoon heat at Qualcomm. Ian in his 66 Blue Mustang was fully expecting to win as he had beat me at those two events, added better tires, and a full Hotchkis package to his car...





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