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Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: OzHemi] #1734515
01/19/15 11:17 PM
01/19/15 11:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
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San Diego
Instigate Offline OP
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Ya, I'm never going to this machine shop again.

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: Instigate] #1734516
01/19/15 11:19 PM
01/19/15 11:19 PM
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Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Oh, and after you fix the rockers and get ready to prime it again, don't forget to rotate the crank a few times as you go... (incase you didn't already know of course)

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: Instigate] #1734517
01/20/15 12:03 AM
01/20/15 12:03 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

So I just had my LA318 rebuilt and I put it back in the truck (89 Dodge D-150), pulled the passenger side valve cover off because I was going to prime the oil pump and watch to see oil flowing up to the heads.


New cam/lifters I am assuming. turn dampener slit to 20 deg ATDC #6 compression (use the tab as a ruler to get the extra 5 (or 10) deg) & preoil the drivers side. then turn the dampener to 90 deg BTDC #1 compression & preoil the passenger side. Some dampeners have partial slits at the other (3) 90 deg intervals on the dampener or cut a strip of paper 5.694" long measured with your calipers and put the regular main full length slit that distance CCW from zero on the timing tab & preoil the passenger side. With both sides preoiled then to get it ready to fire turn crank back CCW a bit more so the slit is now 6.643" CCW from zero on the tab & install/turn the dist till the magnet is dead even with the tooth & the rotor at or close to the #2 plug wire & the can will shift phasing CCW from its at rest position if if ain't dead on as is. I would clock the intergear so #1 plug wire is forward and slightly to the pass side. This lets the wires nestle the neatest with the shortest lengths possible & maintains the OE standardization & helps prevent future mistakes. After preoiling the pass side you could bring the dampener slit back CW till you are at 15 BTDC on the tab then set the dist at #1 which would be much easier to do/figure out but I am trying to minimize the cam being turned prior to fireup. EDIT in fact I would go to the closest of the (2) oiling positions the crank is currently at & preoil then go to the other one then index the dist depending on where you are at & you want the dist set with the piston of the cyl you are on at 15 BTDC

Last edited by RapidRobert; 01/20/15 12:59 PM.

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Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: RapidRobert] #1734518
01/20/15 12:28 PM
01/20/15 12:28 PM
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dan9 Offline
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This procedure sure worked great for me. Thanks for the detailed pointers.

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: RapidRobert] #1734519
01/20/15 03:39 PM
01/20/15 03:39 PM
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dogdays Offline
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It's easy to pi$$ and moan about subpar work. But, you did take everything apart and let them decide how it went together.

There are questions about rocker orientation and rocker shaft placement on this board all the time. By that I mean others who are doing it themselves sometimes can't remember how it goes together.

And there's no need to slag the shop, $1400 is quite a reasonable price with the engine overhauled and even run in.
No harm was done during the short time the engine ran with rockers misplaced.

So I say, take some ownership of the engine. Pull the rocker shafts, it takes less than 5 minutes to do both sides. Put the shafts in the right orientation, driver side notch forward and down, pass side notch near the firewall and down. Put the rocker arms on in the correct order. Reinstall the rocker shafts with a torque wrench, I believe it's something like 20 lb-ft. DO make sure all the pushrods are in their correct rocker arm and not sticking off to the side. Reinstall valve covers and drive it.

If you have removed the distributor and I can't figure out why that would have happened, reinstall it per RR's method. I guess that comes between the valve covers and the "drive it" part.

We do not live in a perfect world and it'll take you less time to put things right than it'll take to either go to court or run it back to the shop.

About whether they did something else wrong, there's no reason to infer they did based on the rockers and shafts. I'm sure 99% of their work is stud-mounted rocker arms, a shaft-mounted rocker is an area in which they have little experience. Everything else is generic to all engines, except maybe the distributor shaft bushing.

Try to take that word "should" out of your vocabulary. You'll live longer that way.

R.

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: dogdays] #1734520
01/20/15 04:02 PM
01/20/15 04:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Quote:

It's easy to pi$$ and moan about subpar work. But, you did take everything apart and let them decide how it went together.





If he brought it to an engine shop and they did not know how to assemble it, they have a problem..no matter how far apart the parts were brought to them. That is the meaning of subpar work to me at least.

He paid them to build the engine, not guess how his 'pile of parts' went back together.

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: OzHemi] #1734521
01/20/15 04:07 PM
01/20/15 04:07 PM
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dogdays Offline
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And once again I say to you stop living in the land of "should".

R.

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: dogdays] #1734522
01/20/15 05:30 PM
01/20/15 05:30 PM
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Posts: 14,889
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Quote:

And once again I say to you stop living in the land of "should".

R.




Anyone can improperly assemble an engine, why ought one pay $1400 to a "pro" for that?

Who knows what else was done improperly. I'd be taking it apart to see and then I just spent $1400 to redo a "pro's" job.

Did they know about the oil gallery plug locations? Will we start seeing "low oil pressure" posts from the OP?

Who knows what other unique features of the 318 this shop doesn't know about.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: Supercuda] #1734523
01/20/15 08:55 PM
01/20/15 08:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
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San Diego
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I hope that's not the case. But I called the shop and talked to their assembly guy. He offered to send someone all the way up here to Oceanside CA from National City(50 Mi away, 45min drive or so) to fix it. But I don't want to be waiting on someone to come all the way up here to do something I can fix in under an hour. So I let them off the hook. But the motor does have a 12 month some odd mile warranty.

Last edited by Instigate; 01/20/15 08:56 PM.
Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: Instigate] #1734524
01/20/15 09:23 PM
01/20/15 09:23 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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unscrew the oil psi sender at the top rear of the block & insert a welding rod straight down & see if the cup is in place (iirc 7&1/4" is correct) but hillbilly visual if the rod goes all the way down to the cap then it was not installed (pan/pump/#5 cap must come back off )


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Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: RapidRobert] #1734525
01/20/15 09:27 PM
01/20/15 09:27 PM
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Florida
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Quote:

unscrew the oil psi sender at the top rear of the block & insert a welding rod straight down & see if the cup is in place (iirc 7&1/4" is correct) but hillbilly visual if the rod goes all the way down to the cap then it was not installed (pan/pump/#5 cap must come back off )






this is something even a good shop/mechanic can miss on a rebuild.

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: RapidRobert] #1734526
01/20/15 09:37 PM
01/20/15 09:37 PM
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dan9 Offline
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I sure have learned a lot from this and my issue. Could you explain the cup down in the sender hole? thanks

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: dan9] #1734527
01/20/15 09:46 PM
01/20/15 09:46 PM
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Florida
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it is a small cup freeze plug=steel the goes in at 7 1/4" to make the oil turn to filter passages then to oil galleys.

with out it you get very low or no oil psi along with no filtering of the oil.

sticking the wire down the hole tells you if it is there or not..if you hit it at the 7 1/4" mark -/+ you are good there.

there are 2 other small ones behind the cam thrust plate, those can be left out but always a good idea to have them in there.

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: dan9] #1734528
01/20/15 09:52 PM
01/20/15 09:52 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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oil goes straight up vertical from the pump/#5 cap to the sender tapped hole & that is a blind dead end used for the sender to check psi. Further down is a 90 deg turn to the pass side horizontle oil gallery & below that there are 2 horizontle passages out to the filter boss. The cup gets driven up up thru the block #5 bearing saddle into that vertical passage till it is halfway between the 2 horizontle passages so the oil is forced to turn & go out horizontle to the filter then returns in the upper horizontle passage to the vertical passage above the plug & goes up further vertically to the right hand turn into the horizontle main gallery (the sender is a dead end so it has to turn below the sender). If it ain't there oil will not be filtered (it'll go straight from the pump to the horizontle gallery) & the eng will run fine but will in effect get NO filtering and when it reaches it's early demise years later & it will be way out of warranty & a person might not ever be aware of what the problem is (& think he did good maintenence with regular filter changes) unless he cuts one open (& maybe not even with that) & few do that.


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Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1734529
01/20/15 09:53 PM
01/20/15 09:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
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San Diego
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Thanks for the info I'll check that. I'm also noticing that the valve spring retainers are not all the same.. Here is a picture. Are some the the retainers upsidedown or?

Last edited by Instigate; 01/20/15 09:55 PM.
Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: RapidRobert] #1734530
01/20/15 10:22 PM
01/20/15 10:22 PM
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San Diego
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Quote:

oil goes straight up vertical from the pump/#5 cap to the sender tapped hole & that is a blind dead end used for the sender to check psi. Further down is a 90 deg turn to the pass side horizontle oil gallery & below that there are 2 horizontle passages out to the filter boss. The cup gets driven up up thru the block #5 bearing saddle into that vertical passage till it is halfway between the 2 horizontle passages so the oil is forced to turn & go out horizontle to the filter then returns in the upper horizontle passage to the vertical passage above the plug & goes up further vertically to the right hand turn into the horizontle main gallery (the sender is a dead end so it has to turn below the sender). If it ain't there oil will not be filtered (it'll go straight from the pump to the horizontle gallery) & the eng will run fine but will in effect get NO filtering and when it reaches it's early demise years later & it will be way out of warranty & a person might not ever be aware of what the problem is (& think he did good maintenence with regular filter changes) unless he cuts one open (& maybe not even with that) & few do that.


.

I checked that and it passes. But it looks like some of the valve spring retainers are upsidedown.

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: Instigate] #1734531
01/20/15 10:29 PM
01/20/15 10:29 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

. I checked that and it passes. But it looks like some of the valve spring retainers are upsidedown.


(1) that's good to hear (2) they ain't upside down but might be rotator type retainers (what is the installed height?) since they are on the exhausts


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Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: RapidRobert] #1734532
01/20/15 10:39 PM
01/20/15 10:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
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San Diego
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Quote:

Quote:

. I checked that and it passes. But it looks like some of the valve spring retainers are upsidedown.


(1) that's good to hear (2) they ain't upside down but might be rotator type retainers (what is the installed height?) since they are on the exhausts



1.7in

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: Instigate] #1734533
01/20/15 11:10 PM
01/20/15 11:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Like Robert said....rotator type, and that is how they go on/look...

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=7910810

Re: LA 318 Valvetrain Question [Re: OzHemi] #1734534
01/20/15 11:13 PM
01/20/15 11:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 156
San Diego
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Quote:

Like Robert said....rotator type, and that is how they go on/look...

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=7910810



Oh alright thanks

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