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Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: Mopar Mitch] #1729526
01/27/15 04:26 PM
01/27/15 04:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
super stock
brads70  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
Howe ball joints/tie rods is what I use. Quality stuff they feel like ball bearings they are so smooth, and they are rebuild able, although I've never had to do that yet.
QA1 and Afco also makes nice stuff.

Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: RylisPro] #1729527
01/28/15 06:45 AM
01/28/15 06:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro Offline
top fuel
RylisPro  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
I've been researching the quality of Moog parts and found this interesting video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ZVahKc06o
It's about an off-road Toyota guy replacing his ball joints. In the video he states the Moog ball joint wore out early and the stud was able to spin around inside the ball. Well I checked out my ball joints and found out that was the design on the upper ball joint.

Lower ball joint K783 on left, upper ball joint K772 on right.

In this closer pic you can clearly that the K772 upper ball joint is a two piece design and has the potential to spin when worn out, like in the video. The lower ball joints K781/K783 have a one piece ball stud design.

Needless to say I am not impressed and will be returning the Moog upper ball joints. I will just buy the Howe 22320 or 22320X instead. I think I will need to get the 2152 installation tool also? Not sure, will call Howe to confirm. I will post up pics when I get the parts in.

The only problem is where to find a better lower Mopar ball joint than Moog or ProForged?
I try really hard to not use Chinese parts. I feel that it's just plain un-Patriotic haha!
I'll post up what I find


73 `Cuda
Instagram: @rylispro
YouTube: RylisPro
www.rylispro.com
925-214-9192
Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: RylisPro] #1729528
01/28/15 10:54 AM
01/28/15 10:54 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
super stock
Uhcoog1  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
I use Raybestos professional grade. Limited research indicated pro grade is superior to the 'new' moog. I haven't had any issues yet with roughly 6,500 miles, thirty 20 min HPDE sessions, and a 118 mile open road race. Everything is still tight.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: Uhcoog1] #1729529
01/28/15 10:57 PM
01/28/15 10:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,492
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,492
north of coder
i'm sure this has been mentioned before, but approximately what would one consider a "safe" date that moog quality was acceptable ? the ball joints i have for my hotrod were bought sometime in the 90's,so i'm positive they are the expected quality, but are we thinking within the last ,say, 5 years ?

Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: Uhcoog1] #1729530
01/29/15 01:21 AM
01/29/15 01:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo Offline
pro stock
mopardamo  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
Uhcoog1,

The Raybestos Professional Grade is the Norris McQuay Extreme duty line reboxed. Got 4 for my CTD and the lowers didn't last a year. I really don't think that its typical of Norris though. The lowers on the diesel ram are a real problem. Only 1 company makes a true full ball for that application. All others are a partial ball and the truck just has too much up front for partial to survive for very long. Grease em regularly is all I can say. I haven't checked the cars design so that is the only caution I would throw out.

Forgot who commented about Moog supplying NASCAR. Its true. The engineer I know got a call about 6 years ago from a NASCAR team and they got reboxed crap, not the USA stuff. Team noticed it right away. Had to get a jet to special deliver it right then. Costly mistake for Moog.

Damon

Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: mopardamo] #1729531
01/29/15 02:15 AM
01/29/15 02:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
master
72Swinger  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Mine are Moog I bought probably 10-11 years ago. Those Howe uppers look real stout, wish they could make us some lowers.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: 72Swinger] #1729532
01/29/15 01:40 PM
01/29/15 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline
pro stock
Mopar Mitch  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
"Re-boxing" is rather common in the aftermarket, but also selectively done, as well as selectively allowed by different distributor customers. Its a way to take over competitor's inventory that is pre-determined (by interchange lists) what's basically an equal product -- in most applications -- between various manufacturere. However, that can be questionable, and... mis-packaging occasionally happens. The aftermarket industry has its risks whenever reboxing occurs -- some of the better known manufacturers will not do it, yet some others do it often.


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: RylisPro] #1729533
01/30/15 01:59 AM
01/30/15 01:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro Offline
top fuel
RylisPro  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
I got the Howe 22320 upper ball joints in. The ball joint boots 22399 comes separately. I talked to the tech guy from Howe and he said that the 22320X extra-duty version was for "high mis-alignment" applications and the ones I got were plenty strong for road race usage.

First impression is how smooth the ball joint articulation is. If I hold the ball joint horizontally the stud just slowly drops from up to down. With the Moog ball joint I can't hardly move the joint with my bare hands.

The Howe on the left is a one piece ball/stud vs. the two piece Moog on the right.

While the Howe ball joint does fit a standard Mopar ball joint tool, it does not sink in all the way.

The reason being is the top part of the ball joint that allows it to be disassembled. I may have to grind out my tool to make things fit or just end up getting the 2152 tool which has the necessary recess.

Oh yeah most importantly,
Made in USA


73 `Cuda
Instagram: @rylispro
YouTube: RylisPro
www.rylispro.com
925-214-9192
Re: Best and worst suspension parts. Update [Re: RylisPro] #1729534
02/02/15 11:05 PM
02/02/15 11:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
super stock
brads70  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
Quote:

I got the Howe 22320 upper ball joints in. The ball joint boots 22399 comes separately. I talked to the tech guy from Howe and he said that the 22320X extra-duty version was for "high mis-alignment" applications and the ones I got were plenty strong for road race usage.

First impression is how smooth the ball joint articulation is. If I hold the ball joint horizontally the stud just slowly drops from up to down. With the Moog ball joint I can't hardly move the joint with my bare hands.

The Howe on the left is a one piece ball/stud vs. the two piece Moog on the right.

While the Howe ball joint does fit a standard Mopar ball joint tool, it does not sink in all the way.

The reason being is the top part of the ball joint that allows it to be disassembled. I may have to grind out my tool to make things fit or just end up getting the 2152 tool which has the necessary recess.

Oh yeah most importantly,
Made in USA





With Howe ball joints you can also get different length pins for adjusting roll centers, camber curves, etc....

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