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Educate me on wideband systems
#1723729
01/07/15 02:27 AM
01/07/15 02:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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I think the next investment I'll make for my car will be a wideband tuning system. I don't know anything about them though, so tell me what I should look for. Whats good? whats bad? and how will they work for me? I see kits with in-car guages, others that just lead to a harness. I assume that goes to an ECU, which I don't have (??) I also see kits that have a handheld box....  My car is an old-school big block with a Holley double pumper. I don't need expensive race stuff, but don't want junk either. 
Last edited by StealthWedge67; 01/07/15 02:33 AM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1723730
01/07/15 02:48 AM
01/07/15 02:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Look to see if it has a reorder and rpm... mine doesnt so I need a second person or a tape recorder that I can call off numbers... what I havent tried yet is a video of the tach and read out.... mine is a LM-1 
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 01/07/15 02:49 AM.
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1723731
01/07/15 03:17 AM
01/07/15 03:17 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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I'm envisioning something like this.... http://www.jegs.com/i/FAST/244/170634/10...CFQdsfgoddDoAbQWhen you say "reorder and RPM" Mike, are you describing a feature that would let you recall a pass to view after the run? Am I following you properly? The FAST one above says it can be hooked up to a "data-logger". So if I'm following this correctly, this kit itself does not offer a "reorder", but can be hooked up to one (???).
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1723733
01/07/15 03:38 AM
01/07/15 03:38 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I'm envisioning something like this....
http://www.jegs.com/i/FAST/244/170634/10...CFQdsfgoddDoAbQ
When you say "reorder and RPM" Mike, are you describing a feature that would let you recall a pass to view after the run? Am I following you properly?
The FAST one above says it can be hooked up to a "data-logger". So if I'm following this correctly, this kit itself does not offer a "reorder", but can be hooked up to one (???).
That is a live time unit and no it doesnt have any
recording or RPM in it... the recorder is basically
a data logger but small.. without rpm you have a hard
time figuring out where your rich or lean.. with the
rpm and recorder you can drive or run down the track
then go back and replay the data then make adjustments
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1723734
01/07/15 03:42 AM
01/07/15 03:42 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Innovate-Motorsports/540/3802/10002/-1
This one says it includes a port to output info directly to a laptop. So, you would then be able to record runs, correct? This seems like it covers what I would need.
What are your thoughts on this kit?
This one is the same company that makes mine.. mine
is a hand held box(I dont hold it)
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1723736
01/07/15 04:14 AM
01/07/15 04:14 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,570
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,570
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Innovate-Motorsports/540/3802/10002/-1
This one says it includes a port to output info directly to a laptop. So, you would then be able to record runs, correct? This seems like it covers what I would need.
What are your thoughts on this kit?
That one uses the same controller as what I use on my EFI. Innovate LC 1.
The LM 1 is the handheld version. You might find one on E-bay for some savings if you want a portable unit.
They use an O2 sensor for a VW so they are readily available.
I've had no problems with my LC 1. Just make sure you wire it up EXACTLY as per instructions. Grounds and power sources are NOT all created equal.
Most problems can be traced back to somebody grabbing any old power wire from under the dash or tieing a ground to the nearest piece of metal on the car. The sensor runs between 0-1v so it doesn't take much to cause it to tell you lies.
Kevin
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1723737
01/07/15 09:45 AM
01/07/15 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,444
Indiana
YO7_A66
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,444
Indiana
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I use two of the FAST 170634 kits but mine is a street car. I do not need to record and I leave mine mounted in the car year around. I take a notepad and pencil with me and I write down any notes that I need for tuning changes.
I can easily see why a racer would need the data logger type of system due to the speed of which everything happens on the track.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1723738
01/07/15 11:57 AM
01/07/15 11:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 715
Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 715
Central TEXAS!!!!
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if you want a real nice unit I would go with a daytona sensors WEGO III. It has built in data logging and some nice software. there is a guy on ebay that made me a great deal on some daytona sensors, he goes by "partsforspeed" name is chris. https://partsforspeed.com/home/gauges-ac...ning-gauge.htmlif you have a go pro camera or use your laptop with a cheap web cam pointed at the gauge. Joe PS after you use a O2 sensor you will wonder why you didn't do it earlier.
Last edited by sr4440; 01/07/15 03:01 PM.
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: sr4440]
#1723739
01/07/15 12:11 PM
01/07/15 12:11 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
Adobedude
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
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I use a Daytona Sensors WEGO IV and a Go Pro, but I also down load the run and convert it to an excel file so I can print it out.
2001 Dodge Dakota
408 All Motor
11.27 @ 117.83 mph
2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1723741
01/07/15 12:43 PM
01/07/15 12:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I really like the EFI I went with(Holley multipoint).. it has a data logger built in which can be down loaded to a laptop.. but the system is a self learn and is trying to drive to the optimum all the time... I just fired up the Rampage for the first time yesterday.. its still learning at this time.. but I'll take it out in the spring to get the full learn into it
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1723742
01/07/15 01:00 PM
01/07/15 01:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,296
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,296
Benton, IL.
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Hummmm, lots of opinions.  Unless you want to try watching the gage rather than the road, or try hooking up a GoPro, or have a passenger with you while gathering data, get a unit with the ability to record. And RPM data is also a near-must. Then your data needs to be on some kind of graph in order to make sense. So just having an A/F ratio line on a spread sheet is not much help. You will need the ability to manipulate the fuel line and coordinate it with RPM. If you don't already have a data logger, do yourself a favor and get a wide band with RPM AND data record abilities. Believe me, after a day of tuning, making multiple changes and having multiple charts, the ability to have them organized in a comprehensive set of charts and the ability to toggle between them is invaluable. I use an LM-1. Has Innovate worked through the initial issues that plagued the LM-2? If so, then that is the unit that I would recommend. 
Master, again and still
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1723744
01/07/15 01:18 PM
01/07/15 01:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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I picked up an Innovate LM-2 for cheap locally of CL. Guy used it for a week to tune his Harley. Can feed the tach signal in, and has inputs for other elec devices (elec fuel pressure, etc.) so you can record a run and look at AFR vs. RPM to see where and when it need fuel. It has a 1/4-20 hole in the back, so I mounted it to a camera tripod mount next to my gauge cluster. Driving around with it in my hand, trying to steer, shift and look at the AFR was a bit of a chore 
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: OUTLAWD]
#1723745
01/07/15 01:27 PM
01/07/15 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
topfueldart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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I'd stay away from an LM-2. General consensus on the net is more have troubles than don't. I was heavily considering one, when I ran across an extremely disheartening Amazon review from one of our members, Nigel Tufnel. My LM-1 failed all together after a couple years as well.
For a semi permanent gauge, I'd go Auto Meter or AEM. For something removable, I like the FAST box.
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: topfueldart]
#1723746
01/07/15 01:34 PM
01/07/15 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I'd stay away from an LM-2. General consensus on the net is more have troubles than don't. I was heavily considering one, when I ran across an extremely disheartening Amazon review from one of our members, Nigel Tufnel. My LM-1 failed all together after a couple years as well.
For a semi permanent gauge, I'd go Auto Meter or AEM. For something removable, I like the FAST box.
I had a error show up on my LM-1 after a couple of
years so I sent it back into them... the issue was
the extension cable to the O2.. had a broken wire..
since then its been fine... I would like to add the
data logger and rpm to it
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Re: Educate me on wideband systems
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1723747
01/07/15 01:41 PM
01/07/15 01:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Hummmm, lots of opinions.
Unless you want to try watching the gage rather than the road, or try hooking up a GoPro, or have a passenger with you while gathering data, get a unit with the ability to record.
And RPM data is also a near-must. Then your data needs to be on some kind of graph in order to make sense. So just having an A/F ratio line on a spread sheet is not much help. You will need the ability to manipulate the fuel line and coordinate it with RPM.
If you don't already have a data logger, do yourself a favor and get a wide band with RPM AND data record abilities. Believe me, after a day of tuning, making multiple changes and having multiple charts, the ability to have them organized in a comprehensive set of charts and the ability to toggle between them is invaluable.
I use an LM-1. Has Innovate worked through the initial issues that plagued the LM-2? If so, then that is the unit that I would recommend.
 For sure the way to go. I actually have a roll bar mount for my camera that sets it far enough back to allow me to capture the tach, boost gage, and AF gage all at the same time. Still a long ways from a data logger, but a far sight ( pardon the pun )better than trying to monitor multiple readings while going down the track. No problems with my LM-2 so far.
Fastest 300
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. Also, since I don't have a lap top. I have to wait till I get home to view the run on my desk top. I'm living in the dark ages when it comes to electronics ( still use the vehicle frame as a ground ). 
