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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1704651
12/27/14 05:19 PM
12/27/14 05:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
larrymopar360
OP
Stud Muffin
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OP
Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
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Do I need to ask what type of alignment rack they have?
I know for example when it comes to tire balancing they say ask for the "roadforce" balancer.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#1704652
12/27/14 09:31 PM
12/27/14 09:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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What I would do is call/visit some shops and explain how it is acting (up)/what has been done & see if you can find someone that makes you feel comfortable that they have the knowhow to find the problem & honest enough that they wont gouge you (financially) in the process. Keep us posted
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#1704654
01/14/15 05:28 PM
01/14/15 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
larrymopar360
OP
Stud Muffin
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OP
Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
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Ok, got it back from shop after second attempt at alignment, free of charge. MUCH better. Still pulls slightly left, but other than that drives and steers real nice now. I am not going to worry about the slight pull. I am just happy to have it back and driving nice. I swapped out the two front tires from my other old police car just to be sure it wasn't a tire problem.
Last alignment I will get there, as much as I like the family. Still asking around so I will be prepared when I need another alignment. Have a couple of shops that are possibilities. Thanks to all.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#1704655
01/14/15 05:52 PM
01/14/15 05:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
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As I'm sure you're aware since you have extensive experience, transverse torsion bar setups are always going to wander because the lower control arm is not positively located. It's rubber bushed on both ends of the strut action, unlike a traditional strut rod that's bolted to the arm with a bushing at the other end that gives just enough motion. Aside from that, these K-members like to bend the upper control arm towers even if you look at them funny. Ride height also plays a critical factor. they were known by the police departments to be incredibly temperamental, often losing an alignment a half hour after it was done On the car you are having issues with, make sure it wasn't whacked, or that one side of the car isn't up higher or jacked relating to the other side. Anyway, gusseting the upper control arm towers of the transverse K Frame is recommended and that's exactly what FirmFeel does to theirs. can be a big help. The floating strut problem isn't so easy to deal with, but if everything else is working properly, it is pretty hard to notice the extra "slop". I read an article a while back where someone added front boxing to the transverse K and added redundant B body style strut rods to their setup on a diplomat cop car test mule. the result was an improved experience. but that's extreme, and not really needed. just helps point out the design deficiency as mentioned, not returning to center is either alignment (caster) or fubar steering chuck I have a factory cop car, 81 diplomat (A38) that came with a slant six. odd combination, but with the extra leaf rear springs, firm feel box, and dual swaybars, it handled excellently. But it needed an offset upper control arm pivot bar to get into factory spec alignment. they really did a substandard (for mopar) job during that period here it is here:  Light Cashmere paint. As I understood it, it was a detective's car, not a roller/pursuit vehicle (obviously). Had spent 9mm casings in it when we got it By the way, getting a "rebuilt" steering chuck is often a dubious proposal these days. I hear they just take whatever, do seals, and repaint. i.e. none of the wear items are replaced, which is exactly where the additional slop comes from.
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: VincentVega]
#1704656
01/14/15 06:12 PM
01/14/15 06:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Quote:
As I'm sure you're aware since you have extensive experience, transverse torsion bar setups are always going to wander because the lower control arm is not positively located. It's rubber bushed on both ends of the strut action, unlike a traditional strut rod that's bolted to the arm with a bushing at the other end that gives just enough motion.
Aside from that, these K-members like to bend the upper control arm towers even if you look at them funny. Ride height also plays a critical factor. they were known by the police departments to be incredibly temperamental, often losing an alignment a half hour after it was done
On the car you are having issues with, make sure it wasn't whacked, or that one side of the car isn't up higher or jacked relating to the other side.
Anyway, gusseting the upper control arm towers of the transverse K Frame is recommended and that's exactly what FirmFeel does to theirs. can be a big help. The floating strut problem isn't so easy to deal with, but if everything else is working properly, it is pretty hard to notice the extra "slop".
I read an article a while back where someone added front boxing to the transverse K and added redundant B body style strut rods to their setup on a diplomat cop car test mule. the result was an improved experience. but that's extreme, and not really needed. just helps point out the design deficiency
as mentioned, not returning to center is either alignment (caster) or fubar steering chuck
By 88 all these "problems" were long fixed. I had an 87 Diplomat with well over 200k miles and zero wandering or handling issues.
The problem probably stems from a lack of ability to do an alignment, I ran into that a lot with my M. Assuming, of course, there are not maintenance issues (bushings rotted, balljoints worn, etc) Ended up having to find a commercial (ie does big trucks) alignment shop with an oldtimer that knows his business.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: Supercuda]
#1704658
01/14/15 08:25 PM
01/14/15 08:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
As I'm sure you're aware since you have extensive experience, transverse torsion bar setups are always going to wander because the lower control arm is not positively located. It's rubber bushed on both ends of the strut action, unlike a traditional strut rod that's bolted to the arm with a bushing at the other end that gives just enough motion.
Aside from that, these K-members like to bend the upper control arm towers even if you look at them funny. Ride height also plays a critical factor. they were known by the police departments to be incredibly temperamental, often losing an alignment a half hour after it was done
On the car you are having issues with, make sure it wasn't whacked, or that one side of the car isn't up higher or jacked relating to the other side.
Anyway, gusseting the upper control arm towers of the transverse K Frame is recommended and that's exactly what FirmFeel does to theirs. can be a big help. The floating strut problem isn't so easy to deal with, but if everything else is working properly, it is pretty hard to notice the extra "slop".
I read an article a while back where someone added front boxing to the transverse K and added redundant B body style strut rods to their setup on a diplomat cop car test mule. the result was an improved experience. but that's extreme, and not really needed. just helps point out the design deficiency
as mentioned, not returning to center is either alignment (caster) or fubar steering chuck
By 88 all these "problems" were long fixed. I had an 87 Diplomat with well over 200k miles and zero wandering or handling issues.
The problem probably stems from a lack of ability to do an alignment, I ran into that a lot with my M. Assuming, of course, there are not maintenance issues (bushings rotted, balljoints worn, etc) Ended up having to find a commercial (ie does big trucks) alignment shop with an oldtimer that knows his business.
My late father bought his first new car in 86 and it was a 86 fifth avenue.
It wandered all over the road from the get go. It went back to the dealer like 5 times and it never got fixed.
Then my Dad was referred to another shop by the dealer. The owner of the dealership and who sold the car was/is friends with our family. A different front end guy got it much better at another shop.
Then my Dad passed in January of 88 and the car was sold. So I don't know how the front end lasted or was even fixed. Shame, brand new car and have that hassle.
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1704659
01/14/15 08:32 PM
01/14/15 08:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
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I started life taking road trips in a 73 newport 4 door and a 73 polara-custom 2 door hardtop. When we got older, we borrowed grandma's 79 Lebaron 4 door. I will say this - being totally isolated, the car did have a pretty darn good ride. They wanted to capture that big car comfort and I do think it worked that way. but I always preferred the longitudinal torsion bars. especially big fat ones
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: VincentVega]
#1704660
01/16/15 07:12 AM
01/16/15 07:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
larrymopar360
OP
Stud Muffin
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OP
Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
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I have owned 6 F/M bodies, 2 now, and never had a wandering issue until this one after transplanting the '88 k-frame to the '80 Aspen. Also never had alignment issues, other than the shop not getting it right the first time. After that tires wear fine and car handles fine. I always work to get the ride height adjusted just right prior to alignments. I have FF aluminum k frame isolators in one and poly ones in the other. The Aspen has poly ones. The car is not wandering anymore. Slightly pulling left but when I find an alignment shop that knows how to do old Mopars it'll be taken care of. Aluminum k frame isolators are the answer IMO to the transverse torsion bar complaints of high speed shudder. I've never had a shop tell me they couldn't get it aligned or have to shim one. I'd like to have FF control arms, and may one day when I can afford to, but IMO anyone with transverse T-bars should start with the aluminum isolators.
I've been driving the Aspen now everyday and am very pleased. The second shot at alignment was the trick. Thanks.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: mopars4ever]
#1704662
01/16/15 09:41 PM
01/16/15 09:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
larrymopar360
OP
Stud Muffin
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OP
Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
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They tended to shake up front at high speeds. Not what I'd call a vibration, but a shake that I would call shuddering. Worse than just a vibration. I'm talking Police speeds, like 90 and up kind of speeds. I think the better k frame in '88/'89 may have helped stop that. Mine are steady as can be at high speeds and doing away with the rubber isolators in favor of aluminum on Diplomat and Poly on Aspen helped all the way around.
Last edited by larrymopar360; 01/16/15 09:53 PM.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Does this sound like steering gear problem?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#1704663
01/16/15 09:50 PM
01/16/15 09:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
larrymopar360
OP
Stud Muffin
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OP
Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,959
Central Florida
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Supercuda speaks the truth. '88 and '89 had the best k frames. My '89 handles great!
Wanting the better '88 K frame in my Aspen is why I did the swap.
I didn't remove any grease fittings to make anything fit on the Aspen. It really is handling great now. One day I want to add a FF box.
Facts are stubborn things.
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