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Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? #1697229
11/10/14 09:44 PM
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hudsonhornet7x Offline OP
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If someone was building a gen III motor, for the street- is there a better choice between the two?

How about cost? Is one cheaper than the other?

Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1697230
11/10/14 10:00 PM
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AlexP Offline
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Some will argue that the carb is cheaper. While some have nice fancy carbs that play the role well, the Hemi was designed via port configuration for efi.

It's more expensive to cost drive ability and efficiency. Power is moot but the other two will suffer in most combinations.

I've got less than $1500 in my efi with computer and wideband. I know it will fire the first time and I don't have to run a side computer for timing. Others will argue but that's my stance.


My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: AlexP] #1697231
11/10/14 10:07 PM
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HEMIDARTS Offline
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Quote:

Some will argue that the carb is cheaper. While some have nice fancy carbs that play the role well, the Hemi was designed via port configuration for efi.

It's more expensive to cost drive ability and efficiency. Power is moot but the other two will suffer in most combinations.

I've got less than $1500 in my efi with computer and wideband. I know it will fire the first time and I don't have to run a side computer for timing. Others will argue but that's my stance.




Can you give us a detailed run down of what exactly you used, and what you had to update on the car to use those items?

Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: HEMIDARTS] #1697232
11/10/14 10:24 PM
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AlexP Offline
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Efi source ms3x $1299
Innovate mtx-l wideband $150

6 wire hookup, comes preloaded with a start up time. It's the easiest way to run a modern Hemi.

You still need a fuel system with a high pressure pump, but most people can run what they have. 3/8 line will supply what most are doing with these builds. I've got less than $250 In my fuel system, but I already had 1/2" stainless feed and return lines from my carbed days. I bought them really cheap on sale from a fine lines Xmas sale.


My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1697233
11/10/14 10:36 PM
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Moparmal Offline
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I agree with AlexP....only a fool would argue that a carb set up is more efficient.

Cost is line ball....didnt use to be but there are more efi options around now......
To get a carb set up on a Gen 3 working properly, you're either compensating for ineffecient intake manifolds or running a race set up out ofthe hood........and sometimes BOTH.

Most guys who run carbs are either doing it for the looks....or simply prefer old school tuning processes.


67 RO23 clone with 6.1 SRT Hemi and dual quads. Soon to have Drag Pak induction and Throttle body.
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: AlexP] #1697234
11/10/14 10:37 PM
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Thank you for the information Alex.

Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: HEMIDARTS] #1697235
11/10/14 10:44 PM
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hudsonhornet7x Offline OP
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Was it Zippy that talked about the 392 crate program? I seem to remember that the efi made 540 or something and the carb was 600-ish?

I wonder what the story on that was.

Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1697236
11/10/14 10:47 PM
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Quote:

Was it Zippy that talked about the 392 crate program? I seem to remember that the efi made 540 or something and the carb was 600-ish?

I wonder what the story on that was.


I would say poor EFI tuning with a 60hp difference

Monte

Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1697237
11/10/14 10:59 PM
11/10/14 10:59 PM
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Moparmal Offline
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Quote:

Was it Zippy that talked about the 392 crate program? I seem to remember that the efi made 540 or something and the carb was 600-ish?

I wonder what the story on that was.




I could only see that happening if it was a big cam motor with the factory EFI vs the Ritter/Drag Pak intake...and even then, peak HP is only part of the story.......

Last edited by Moparmal; 11/10/14 11:00 PM.
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: Moparmal] #1697238
11/10/14 11:01 PM
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IMHO for a street car, EFI is the way to go. Put it down to driveability.

R.

Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: dogdays] #1697239
11/10/14 11:18 PM
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Quote:

IMHO for a street car, EFI is the way to go. Put it down to driveability.

R.


I would agree with this and also add any race car to that as well. EFI is the way to go. Wouldn't matter to me if I never saw another carb........LOL!!!

I even have EFI on my 74 beater Jeep and my jetboat...........love it.

Monte

Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1697240
11/10/14 11:27 PM
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Anymore,depending on what you start with core wise, it isn't cheaper to go carb. $700 intake, $500 carb, and $5-600 ignition setup. Yeah the car might already be set up for carb but still....A stock 6.1 intake will kill anything else power wise other than a Drag Pak but you put a $350 throttle body on those too.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1697241
11/10/14 11:43 PM
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Quote:

Was it Zippy that talked about the 392 crate program? I seem to remember that the efi made 540 or something and the carb was 600-ish?

I wonder what the story on that was.




Different intake for sure. Don't know if the tunes were both optimized or not.


In my opinion, the intake used is more important than carb vs efi for WOT power. The intakes worth using IMO are the factory efi intakes (for wide powerband and more torque below 5000 rpm- may not be as strong above 6000 vs drag pak), and the drag pak / muscle motors intake (shorter runners).


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: Uhcoog1] #1697242
11/10/14 11:55 PM
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hudsonhornet7x Offline OP
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OK I can really see the points of a EFI setup. Is there one out there that will work with a 6.4 engine and wont be too hard to install? Maybe plug and play?

This will be for a high school shop project and can't be too complicated lol. The teacher is from the stone age!

Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1697243
11/11/14 12:11 AM
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If using a stock 6.4 with VVT I highly recommend Modern Muscle for a plug and play factory ECU setup that even uses the factory DBW throttle body.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1697244
11/11/14 10:17 AM
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You're not going to run a stock engine.

In that case you will either have the steep learning curve to tune it, or you will be paying someone to do it.

That has held me back from EFI.

It's about a grand to get one tuned on the chassis dyno here.
Then if you want to change the combination, get the checkbook out again.


NMCA NSS 67 Coronet
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1697245
11/11/14 10:45 AM
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several factors to consider here;
what are you starting with? Intake system complete, a lot of carb stuff, or nothing?
Which do YOU want? I would love the 2x4 intake early Hemi look, but don't like the hassle of carbs.
I am having a hard time coming up with a scoop or hood bulge that I can live with on the car I want to put this in, the factory barrel intake will fit. But then I loose the open hood look of the 2x4 carbs.
Fuel injection is the overall power and drivability king, period. Only a customized race package can do better with the carb, due to the narrow power band they can set the car up for. Even then, I don't see the carb having any edge because of the tune ability of EFI and almost zero WOT vacuum.
There are only two race systems I like; First, Constant flow fuel injection, because it is so stupid simple and reliable. Second, custom EFI. All the advantages of modern engineering are right there.
Someone once described the carb as a wonderful device made to deliver the wrong amount of fuel at the wrong time. That description made me laugh, because when you look at all the band aid engineering in a barb to alter fuel delivery, it is spot on


8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: gregsdart] #1697246
11/11/14 12:14 PM
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Greg, did you buy that intake yet? I want to see it


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Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: sixpackgut] #1697247
11/11/14 01:43 PM
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Not yet. Got the carbs, though used, great shape, Endurashine I may wait on buying any more induction parts till I get the motor buttoned up. It could be some months, and ya never know what is coming down the (new stuff)pipeline


8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better? [Re: gregsdart] #1697248
11/11/14 07:51 PM
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Moparmal Offline
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The other point to consider is the lack of suitability of Gen 3 cams to carb induction.

Most run a very late ICL..(111 to 114).....which means terrible cylinder pressure when relying on vacuum to draw fuel through a carb.

The late ICL is to achieve decent piston to valve clearance - but the EFI certainly compensates much better in this area.

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