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How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
#1695710
11/07/14 03:10 PM
11/07/14 03:10 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Or more accurately, how quick ? On a 70 B-body in particular, how quick could one hope to run without doing any permanent damage (twisting) to your unibody ? Do not want a bar, possibly open to the US car tool frame connectors as they look almost factory. Even with those, how quick could one hope to run, 1.50ish 60's ?? Would also boxing in the front and rear torque boxes make much of a difference ? Lower radiator core support stiffening braces ??
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1695712
11/07/14 04:09 PM
11/07/14 04:09 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Speed really isn`t the issue it`s tying the frames to make a better working more rigid chassis. 
As I said, I know it is not the speed, but the quickness or 60' times would be the biggest factor.
I did find this video of what appears to be a 70 Bee with no Rollbar, runs 10.60's with 1.56 60' times......looks to have caltracks....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzc3yt9M21E&list=PLryldDmlkIM3zhPot22ErcCdMzCXDMWdz
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: ]
#1695713
11/07/14 04:17 PM
11/07/14 04:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Cincinnati, Ohio
d7cook
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Or more accurately, how quick ? On a 70 B-body in particular, how quick could one hope to run without doing any permanent damage (twisting) to your unibody ? Do not want a bar, possibly open to the US car tool frame connectors as they look almost factory. Even with those, how quick could one hope to run, 1.50ish 60's ?? Would also boxing in the front and rear torque boxes make much of a difference ? Lower radiator core support stiffening braces ??
I had a 67 RT that ran mid 11's that had cracking in the paint up each side of the cowl by the fender. It got pretty obvious over time. Frame connectors or a roll bar would have probably stopped it. Also are you racing every weekend or an occasional blast on TNT night?
1967 Coronet, 1989 Daytona tube chassis.
Former cars, 66 Charger, 67 R/T, 69 Coronet, 67 Dart GT.
-Banned for life from V8Buick.com-
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: d7cook]
#1695714
11/07/14 04:20 PM
11/07/14 04:20 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
Or more accurately, how quick ? On a 70 B-body in particular, how quick could one hope to run without doing any permanent damage (twisting) to your unibody ? Do not want a bar, possibly open to the US car tool frame connectors as they look almost factory. Even with those, how quick could one hope to run, 1.50ish 60's ?? Would also boxing in the front and rear torque boxes make much of a difference ? Lower radiator core support stiffening braces ??
I had a 67 RT that ran mid 11's that had cracking in the paint up each side of the cowl by the fender. It got pretty obvious over time. Frame connectors or a roll bar would have probably stopped it. Also are you racing every weekend or an occasional blast on TNT night?
This is for a 98% Street Car, maybe twice a year at the track.
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1695716
11/07/14 04:43 PM
11/07/14 04:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,592
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,592
Fulton County, PA
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I would think once it got to the point where it needed a bar (12.0 - 11.50s) it needs to have frame ties. Mid 13s and quicker it will certainly help. I wouldn't put a bar in without them. How you tie it up makes a big difference also. Bolt-ins are a waste of time. The 2x2 pre-fab weld-in kits are OK, but if you want it as stiff as possible, 2x3 sectioned into the floor is how it should be done.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: ]
#1695717
11/07/14 04:50 PM
11/07/14 04:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,535
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,535
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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These old unibodies need frame ties regardless in my opinion. If the motor will be somewhat healthy and you'll drive like it was meant to be driven, then put some connectors on it. 
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1695720
11/07/14 07:28 PM
11/07/14 07:28 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Everything needs the frames tied together regardless of ET. If it twists or flexes even a little bit, that's too much. Don't waste your time on bolt ins
Monte
I'll second that...
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: dogdays]
#1695722
11/07/14 09:21 PM
11/07/14 09:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,592
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,592
Fulton County, PA
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The stamped floor pan is where most of the strength of the unibody is. Sectioning the tubing into the floor and fully weld it, as opposed to a couple of inches of attachment in the front and rear, makes a big difference. I also like to see the cage attached to the inside of the body in strategic locations, rather than just sitting on the floor pan. Make the body shell one interconnected unit, top to bottom, where the pieces all strengthen and support each other.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#1695723
11/07/14 09:57 PM
11/07/14 09:57 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I appreciate all the comments. It seems the consensus is the make it as rigid as possible, but like I said this will be a car that goes to the track maybe twice a year. I personally like things looking as original as possible, yet I would be bored running 13's , 12's.... Any first hand experience with using the US Car Tool Connectors ? My biggest concern is they are only 12 gauge, and the floorpan is probably less, so.... Do they really stiffen things up ? What about additionally boxing the front and rear torque boxes, is that worth doing ? And the front Radiator support stiffener ? In theory it looks like a good idea, just wondering if anyone has first hand experience with these items. It is an Original 6 bbl car, so the most I am willing to do is install the US Car Tool style connectors/parts, as they look somewhat factory, to me. What brought this to mind is this video I saw of a 70 Bee running 10.60 with 1.56 60' times without a bar. This is the type of car that appeals to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzc3yt9M21E&list=PLryldDmlkIM3zhPot22ErcCdMzCXDMWdz
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: DLewis]
#1695725
11/08/14 12:03 AM
11/08/14 12:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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I'd put them on anything I was planning to drive. As others have mentioned, stiffening the chassis can help preserve the car.
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: 70blackfish]
#1695728
11/08/14 03:03 AM
11/08/14 03:03 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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I used to have a 64 plymouth 4 speed street / strip car, no frame connectors or bar as it only ran 12.50's. When I got rid of that car there was not only cracks on the A pillar, I could stick my finger between the windshield and the A pillar because the body was twisted so much. On my 67 Barracuda , A pillars have cracked and the floor tunnel is twisted / buckled even with frame connectors and a 6 point bar. Also , most sheet meat on older cars were 20 gauge or less. 12 gauge is fairly thick, 10 gauge is 1/8".  
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1695729
11/08/14 08:41 AM
11/08/14 08:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958
Oakdale CT
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Quote:
Everything needs the frames tied together regardless of ET. If it twists or flexes even a little bit, that's too much. Don't waste your time on bolt ins
Monte
If you can find a set of bolt ins cheap weld them in place, it makes a difference.
My '67 was beat on so bad I cracked the trans tunnel over time. I ended up installing a used set from a swap meet missing the hardware so we just welded them in. Night and day difference!
Edit- I was running 13.0's at 112 on street tires.
Last edited by gdonovan; 11/08/14 08:51 AM.
"I think its got a hemi"
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