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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: mopower440]
#1694599
11/05/14 06:44 PM
11/05/14 06:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
Quote:
 Years ago my car ran 11.87 at 111.9 mph w/ a set of bone stock 906 heads on a 509/292 MP cammed 440. I switched to a set of mildly home ported 915 closed chamber heads...no other changes and the car ran 11.40 at 117.4 mph in similar conditions. That gain in flow and a little compression REALLY woke it up. Was a whole different animal. 
tell me more, what was the rest of the combo?
440, stock crank, heavy 6 pack rods, Ross flattops, ported 915s, MP 509/292 hyd. cam, stock rockers and pushrods, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, 830 holley DP, 1 7/8" headers, 3" exhaust w/ 2 chamber flowmasters.
727 w/ 10" TCI Streetfighter converter (around 3500 stall), 4.10 gear, 28x10 slicks.
The car weighed 3700 lbs w/ me in it back then. Drove it on the street all the time.
Went 11.40 at 117.4 mph on motor and mid 10s on a small nitrous hit. Had a lot of fun w/ that combo.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: lewtot184]
#1694600
11/05/14 08:10 PM
11/05/14 08:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,632
SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN
72N96RR
I LOVE WEDGIES
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I LOVE WEDGIES
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,632
SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN
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Quote:
i bought my first set of edelbrocks this spring and feel as if they're over rated compared to the iron heads i took off. but, you will see a noticable difference over stock heads.
over rated yet a noticeable difference...  
1972 Road Runner / GTX 440 4spd Dana 3.54 Just about to turn 26K original miles..
A boat, a GMC truck, some Craftsman Tools, LOTS of Zombie Protection, and a few Goldfish..
If you love someone set them free..
If they come back it means nobody else wanted them either..!!
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1694603
11/05/14 10:03 PM
11/05/14 10:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Years ago my car ran 11.87 at 111.9 mph w/ a set of bone stock 906 heads on a 509/292 MP cammed 440. I switched to a set of mildly home ported 915 closed chamber heads...no other changes and the car ran 11.40 at 117.4 mph in similar conditions. That gain in flow and a little compression REALLY woke it up. Was a whole different animal.
tell me more, what was the rest of the combo?
440, stock crank, heavy 6 pack rods, Ross flattops, ported 915s, MP 509/292 hyd. cam, stock rockers and pushrods, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, 830 holley DP, 1 7/8" headers, 3" exhaust w/ 2 chamber flowmasters.
727 w/ 10" TCI Streetfighter converter (around 3500 stall), 4.10 gear, 28x10 slicks.
The car weighed 3700 lbs w/ me in it back then. Drove it on the street all the time.
Went 11.40 at 117.4 mph on motor and mid 10s on a small nitrous hit. Had a lot of fun w/ that combo.
do you know what the compression was with that combo? what the compression height of those pistons were? I also have a heavy bottom end with the TRW 6-pack pistons. I cant remember how far down in the hole these pistons are but the compression height i think is 2.062 and with my stock 452 heads is at 9.4:1. I wish i would have gone with that 292/509 cam instead of the 284/484 as i have heard of lots of fast combos with that cam. Im willing to change the combo up some to get it faster and more matched but would like to keep the bottom end as-is. Its only got about 500 miles on it since i built it several years ago.
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: scatpacktom]
#1694605
11/05/14 11:09 PM
11/05/14 11:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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Quote:
I wouldn't even consider the cyl heads until I was sure the intake wasn't the problem. In your case the intake is the problem. That's a fact 
Consider this... Lets say your new heads flow 280 (big number) but your stock intake will only let you have 230 cfm of that. Do you think that is the recipe to hp happiness?
Intake will be your problem, that is a fact
this!
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: lewtot184]
#1694606
11/06/14 12:06 AM
11/06/14 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't even consider the cyl heads until I was sure the intake wasn't the problem. In your case the intake is the problem. That's a fact
Consider this... Lets say your new heads flow 280 (big number) but your stock intake will only let you have 230 cfm of that. Do you think that is the recipe to hp happiness?
Intake will be your problem, that is a fact
this!
Ok, then while were at it, lets fix the intake problem first. I know the edelbrock performer RPM is the one advised the most but i have been told by many that it will not fit under the hood in a 440 dart. This sucks. Is there possibly another intake out there that will fit and be even close to the performance of the edelbrock performer rpm?
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: BradH]
#1694608
11/06/14 01:55 AM
11/06/14 01:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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X2 on the Holley SD. very low profile/single plane/good rep. With the heads you're gonna gain from the SCR increase going from the open 452's to closed chambered (I'm assuming) eddys in addition to the port flow. Back in the dark ages I had a medium SCR (not sure what it was exactly) 440 with 906 heads/509 cam and I advanced the cam 4 deg & milled the heads .060 or 090 (I forget which) & it was a dramatic improvement & you'll gain even more than that with your (intended) mods. If your gonna mod the dist (I would), wait till you are done cuz the cyl psi needs to be finalized
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: mopower440]
#1694610
11/06/14 10:44 AM
11/06/14 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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X3 on the Holley SD intake! And like I said in my first post, change the intake when you do the heads. Or just the intake alone to start with. The Holley SD and the Edelbrock Performer RPM run nearly identical even though one's a single plane and the other a dual plane. I ran the 2 back to back, same day track test on my previously mentioned 11.4 sec combo and they ran nearly the same. The RPM slightly faster down low, the SD slightly faster up top...and I do mean slightly. Could hardly tell a difference driving it. The Holley just happens to be a lot shorter and fits much better w/ stock hoods.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1694611
11/06/14 11:12 AM
11/06/14 11:12 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
X3 on the Holley SD intake! And like I said in my first post, change the intake when you do the heads. Or just the intake alone to start with.
The Holley SD and the Edelbrock Performer RPM run nearly identical even though one's a single plane and the other a dual plane. I ran the 2 back to back, same day track test on my previously mentioned 11.4 sec combo and they ran nearly the same. The RPM slightly faster down low, the SD slightly faster up top...and I do mean slightly. Could hardly tell a difference driving it.
The Holley just happens to be a lot shorter and fits much better w/ stock hoods.
I think the difference comes into play on the street with lower RPM's
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: scatpacktom]
#1694612
11/06/14 11:43 AM
11/06/14 11:43 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Quote:
I wouldn't even consider the cyl heads until I was sure the intake wasn't the problem. In your case the intake is the problem. That's a fact
Consider this... Lets say your new heads flow 280 (big number) but your stock intake will only let you have 230 cfm of that. Do you think that is the recipe to hp happiness?
Intake will be your problem, that is a fact
Oh so true. First column is the cylinder head flow, second column is the head flow with the 1969 stock intake and an 850 Mighty Demon carburetor, third column is with an Edelbrock RPM intake and the 850.
Lift...........(1)...........(2)..........(3)
.100..........72.............69...........71
.200.........150............131..........145
.300.........212............172..........195
.400.........254............187..........228
.500.........276............199..........240
.600.........290............203..........251
.700.........302............204..........256
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1694615
11/06/14 12:49 PM
11/06/14 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
Quote:
we ran a wiend team G one night at the track and I swear it was faster with the stock cast iron intake..
Was that with NO other changes and was the A/F ratio/temp/humidity exactly the same? Not disagreeing just thinking out loud
I'm wondering the same thing? It should have been faster than the stock manifold, but then again, the Team G is one of the worst single planes for the BB mopar ever.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: mopower440]
#1694616
11/06/14 08:03 PM
11/06/14 08:03 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 304
Enfield, Ct
Moe
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 304
Enfield, Ct
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't even consider the cyl heads until I was sure the intake wasn't the problem. In your case the intake is the problem. That's a fact
Consider this... Lets say your new heads flow 280 (big number) but your stock intake will only let you have 230 cfm of that. Do you think that is the recipe to hp happiness?
Intake will be your problem, that is a fact
this!
Ok, then while were at it, lets fix the intake problem first. I know the edelbrock performer RPM is the one advised the most but i have been told by many that it will not fit under the hood in a 440 dart. This sucks. Is there possibly another intake out there that will fit and be even close to the performance of the edelbrock performer rpm?
Edelbrock RPM Performer fits /w plenty of room on my '68 440 Dart. Flat Hood
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1694617
11/06/14 09:48 PM
11/06/14 09:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
The Edelbrock, Stealth, Pro Comp, etc., heads all need to be gone through by a machine shop before being bolted on. The Trick Flow heads aren't even available yet.
Todd Marsh has the Sidewinders he sells already checked out and any issues corrected.
I installed 2 sets of edlebrock heads right out of the box, one set on a 340 in 2007 which now has 26K miles in it and has been beat hard. It still burns no oil still has the same 165 cranking compression since new.
Then same deal right out of the box on my 440 I built in 2004, it's still running great today right out of the box! 
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Re: How much gain for heads?
[Re: Moe]
#1694618
11/06/14 10:04 PM
11/06/14 10:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't even consider the cyl heads until I was sure the intake wasn't the problem. In your case the intake is the problem. That's a fact
Consider this... Lets say your new heads flow 280 (big number) but your stock intake will only let you have 230 cfm of that. Do you think that is the recipe to hp happiness?
Intake will be your problem, that is a fact
this!
Ok, then while were at it, lets fix the intake problem first. I know the edelbrock performer RPM is the one advised the most but i have been told by many that it will not fit under the hood in a 440 dart. This sucks. Is there possibly another intake out there that will fit and be even close to the performance of the edelbrock performer rpm?
Edelbrock RPM Performer fits /w plenty of room on my '68 440 Dart. Flat Hood
are you serious? No mods or anything to make it fit? would it be any different in mine being its a 1972? HMMM...Its been a long time since i inquired about this intake so dont remember ...could it have been possibly because i use a thermoquad and that combined with the RPM performer made it too tall? Will a thermoquad even bolt up to the RPM intake?
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