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Im gonna go measure ring depth and the rings themselves. I have Manley pistons and these TS rings are what they stipulate because of the ring depth. I also have the single set of Mahles to compare to. I was thinking about using a tie wrap around the base of the compressor next lol! I agree about it being to tight, but the current situation calls for it to be REAL tight or im screwed.

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I understand your situation. Sounds all too familiar. With the Diamond pistons, the compression ring grooves were not deep enough too, and the rings would not compress enough to get in the cylinder. I had file fitted the rings in the bores and knew that they were not end butting. With the too long oil ring expander, the oil rings would not compress without the expander ends overlapping. I suspect you are having a similar problem, although it could be the ring causing your problems. Good luck!! When you find the culprit, they will go in as easy as what you are accustomed to.

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Well I don't need any more convincing what the problem is. The TS expander ring wont let the oil rings compress enough. The pic shows the TS on the left and Mahle right. The oil rings between the 2 brands cannot be told apart, identical. Both ring sets are file fit for a 4.06 bore and drop in for a 4.065, which is what im using. BTW the TS 2nd ring needed quite a bit of filing to be "drop in" while the top was dead nuts on. Since I already 'chipped' the top ring in #2 im gonna throw in the towel and spend MORE money for a set of Mahle's. Will call Total Seal Monday and give them a chance to make it right.

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Total Seal.."make it right",,, Good Luck with THAT!! ALL these parts suppliers know more than we do,,or we would be working there, right? "A tee shirt and a hat does not make a tech rep." by Fred @ Chapman Performance

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Oh, and how many times can ARP 2000 rod bolts be torqued and removed and torqued and removed??? This sucks....

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I wouldn't be concerned on the bolts,,they are fine.

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a fixed diameter tapered ring compressor is definately the way to go. our pistons are all easy push in by hand with no ring hangups.

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best way to go. I use "PRC". Learned the hard way after I folded over an oil scraper ring.

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I called Total Seal and told them the situation. They said the rings I have were spec'd by Manley to have a 24 lb oil ring tension. And in order to get that tension with a 3mm ring set, the expander must be oversized. Because of this you have to "crush" the expander ring by running it through the compressor before hand with only the oil rings installed on the piston. I already ordered the Mahles in standard tension and am gonna stick with those, but the guy at Total Seal seemed to know his s**t and was bummed that Manley didn't have in their instructions an explanation on the need for crushing.

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Could be true,,,I was not told anything like that. I was only told that "we do not make the expanders in house,yada yada yada...". In other words, "we didn't make the expander and any problems you are having are not our fault". I did notice one thing in their instructions,,,"DO NOT alter the length of the expander, it will void warranty"..or something similar to that. I believe most of the parts suppliers are like the people building these Gen 3 engines, they haven't got ALL the particulars NAILED yet, so some problems will occur.

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I called Total Seal and told them the situation. They said the rings I have were spec'd by Manley to have a 24 lb oil ring tension. And in order to get that tension with a 3mm ring set, the expander must be oversized. Because of this you have to "crush" the expander ring by running it through the compressor before hand with only the oil rings installed on the piston. I already ordered the Mahles in standard tension and am gonna stick with those, but the guy at Total Seal seemed to know his s**t and was bummed that Manley didn't have in their instructions an explanation on the need for crushing.

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Could be true,,,I was not told anything like that. I was only told that "we do not make the expanders in house,yada yada yada...". In other words, "we didn't make the expander and any problems you are having are not our fault". I did notice one thing in their instructions,,,"DO NOT alter the length of the expander, it will void warranty"..or something similar to that. I believe most of the parts suppliers are like the people building these Gen 3 engines, they haven't got ALL the particulars NAILED yet, so some problems will occur.

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I called Total Seal and told them the situation. They said the rings I have were spec'd by Manley to have a 24 lb oil ring tension. And in order to get that tension with a 3mm ring set, the expander must be oversized. Because of this you have to "crush" the expander ring by running it through the compressor before hand with only the oil rings installed on the piston. I already ordered the Mahles in standard tension and am gonna stick with those, but the guy at Total Seal seemed to know his s**t and was bummed that Manley didn't have in their instructions an explanation on the need for crushing.

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The more I think about their explanation/excuse,,I want to call BS on that. If that was the case,,I'm thinking you would have had them crushed enough as many times that you tried and re-tried to get them in.

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a fixed diameter tapered ring compressor is definately the way to go. our pistons are all easy push in by hand with no ring hangups.

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best way to go IMO also. No drips, no runs, no errors - no matter what the chamfer.

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a fixed diameter tapered ring compressor is definately the way to go. our pistons are all easy push in by hand with no ring hangups.

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best way to go IMO also. No drips, no runs, no errors - no matter what the chamfer.

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I used to use the bottom one in the pic below but was then introduced to the one above it and will never use anything else.

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You HAVE to understand HOW an oil ring works. The rails are the rails, no magic there, but to vary the oil ring tension, is ALL in the expander........ummm, that's why it is CALLED an expander. So the bigger the expander, the more oil ring tension and the more difficult it is to compress, especially with small rails and packages, like 3mm. And that's obviously why you NEVER shorten an expander, because it takes away the pressure the expander was SET to give. That aside, the OPs main problem sounds like too little bore chamfer. If the top of the bore is razor sharp, it is nearly impossible to get a ring stack in cleanly, even with the perfect sized compressor. A chamfer allows the rings a bit of a "running go" at the bore when it leaves the bottom of the compressor.

So there is nothing wrong with your rings. Its either the quality of the compressor, the chamfer, or simply your installation technique

As far as TECH at Total Seal......you probably talked with either Kevin Studeker or Matt Hartford........trust me, these guys KNOW what they are talking about

Monte

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