Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: slammedR/T]
#1673817
09/22/14 02:36 PM
09/22/14 02:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
Porter67
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
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As far as costs go, many overlook that no matter what you run weather mopar/ford/chevy that slicks/rims/carbs/fogger kits/cooling system/danas/gear sets/oils/fuels/nitrous fills and it goes on and on. Many parts are used by all, the parts don't know the difference but cost the same. PLEASE one of you older rich baby boomers cut your kids out of the will and donate the R@D money and the cost of a first run or so to do a proper block. Hell name the block after your family name and let that be your legacy that many would never forget. Only in a perfect world. Glad to see the bickering stop it was a all nighter when Id check on my work breaks and really Mr. Smith, although I do not know you, many don't like to hear the truth. From what ive heard and read over the years on many sites and people who know you, your clearly well in the loop of the reality of this type of motorsport and although no one knows it all you seem to be doing well. Some just cant get that paper bag off there head and some would do better with a tight plastic bag and duct tape.
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: B G Racing]
#1673818
09/22/14 02:41 PM
09/22/14 02:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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While there is some great info here ....the personal stuff has to end......now...next guy gets the cooler
Cooler? Like a wine cooler?We have enough whinning so lets get some cheese and crackers to go with all the wine-ing. But seriously this type of dialoge here and throughout the race community is what is killing our sport.Choise of words and how the are presented should be respectful if you want people to share their ideas,knowledge and be helpful.There is alot of things that can be accomplished if we all approach it in a professional and respectful manner. We at BGR have been trying to work with manufactures to help build better product products.Companys Like Indy,HHP,Ritter.440 Source,Edelbrock,Koffels and others are doing a lot to develope more Mopar performance hard parts.The process is long,hard and expensive.But all the negative feedback and bashing these companys get may tend to make them not want to make a commitment of their resources especially the great monatary investment.They have a hard enough time getting raw materials like casting and forgings from the limited foundarys that provide them.Tooling is also a large concern as current machining is getting worn and new tooling is in the outer atmosphere as far as cost. Bitching and bickering will benifit no one,commitment,ideas and knowledge needs to be constructively and professionally presented to the companys along with a marketing stragity that will get them interested.If everyone here would present their ideas,either collectively or representivly at venues like the PRI shows manufactures may take us serious and listen. We must support our sport or we will left with memories of better days.
I have been beating this drum for more than the last two decades. And that is one of the issues I have. If this process was started 25 years ago, where would we be now? But, as stated many times above, the AVERAGE MoPar (who makes up 99% of us) is damn happy with a 451 and -1 heads. That crap is 1960' tech with raised ports. PERIOD. I know if I call and want to buy blank Predator castings I will never get them. They want to sell finished parts. But, if I call Brodix or AFR or, or, or whoever I can get blank castings for a chevy. Then , I can put the valves where I want them, the ports where I want them and everything else. When you are trying to make a show, or run heads up, you can't run 40+ year old crap and compete. Won't happen. Takes forever to get parts. Some parts you have to have made and most people won't do it. I don't blame them. If you accept junk, cobble it along and think you are fast, you are a bracket racer. I have mellowed in my age, but I ain't dead yet. All the above suppliers (from my experience) don't do enough to educate racers. Main girdles, aftermarket main caps, block filler and the like will NOT make a passenger car block into a race block. I'm rambling here but one more thing. The men who developed the G2 hemi were HAND SCRAPING the cores to get metal where it needed to be. The y never designed a main girdle to make it right. Straight poop there. Speaking truth to bracket racers.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: ]
#1673819
09/22/14 02:44 PM
09/22/14 02:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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And yes, I do define racers and hobbyists in "groups" and I doubt anyone but YOU has an issue with that. I would say bracket racers are a "group". Class racers are a "group". Heads up racers would be a "group". Resto guys would be a "group" and so on..........so exactly what is your issue with that. And believe it or not, some of us might be a part of MULTIPLE groups..........oh the horror of it. "Cats and Dogs" living together, oh its total anarchy...........LOL!!!
I considered putting you on ignore, just as Mr P and I am sure MANY others have, but you are just too much fun. The more you post, the more.........well, you know, or at least the rest of us do..........LOL!!!
Monte
You can't recall what you say from one post to the next...LOL...a month ago you said you hadn't raced in 15+ years because of life, kids, divorce, new houses, etc......now it's soley because you chose the wrong engine combo.....okkkk....and all these megablocks you have bought, you never mentioned before, have never mentioned having any other race car besides your GTX....
YOU have made it clear previously that you wouldn't waste your time/money on a Predator, or any 4.8 bs engine....Now you are claiming to ???? Try and stick to ONE story please.....
The last time that I know of that you entered a race, you whacked the throttle in reverse and backed into a guy in the staging lanes....
I have no problem with whatever engine you put in your GTX....never have....I am more interested in the cars like Gary Robbins has, very very impressive to me, and he probably talks the least, and just gits-r-dun...
My only issue with you, is your constantly belittling Mopar guys as cheap dinosaurs, for not buying the same parts you claim aren't good enough for you !! I find that ironic and hypocritical...
This whole post is because a few Mopar guys talked about how nice it would be to have blocks available priced similar to chevy blocks....and the bashing began....
Most of your posts are very interesting, straight to the point, make perfect sense.....
I said this, not Monty. If you think main girdles and off the shelf cams are for you, I would not build you anything. It's that simple.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: ]
#1673823
09/22/14 03:54 PM
09/22/14 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
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I have built Mopar engines every day for over 25 years--that means a lot of them. Some wonders --that won championships and some turds that well...were just that but...98% were just fine , however I am always surprised when one I built 7 years ago-- finally gives up at the race track- and I get a call --'what am I going to do about it?" then..a dear friend that has built engines for over 40 years says to me If they can't afford to blow one up every now and then NO matter who or what was at fault --then...this ain't the hobby for them. It is tougher every day that passes to justify doing more--with parts quality what it is and budgets way less than it really takes to cover all the bases When I really think it over --I know we were better off sticking a 509 cam in a junk yard 440 stuffing that into a $700 Duster and having FUN. Way better than where we are now with a $15K build being pretty normal. I sinned and built myself a 350 small block Chevy for my Nostalgia dragster--a nice 200 inch old school looking fun machine--well after doing all that "sinning" without doing all that much spending I can say that it is the best bang for the buck since those .509 in a old 440 days Bash if you must --I do not care but I am racing--going fast as I need to--and doing it on the cheap which...
Makes it FUN AGAIN!!! and if it blows all to pieces --well..it was just a friggin SBC--who gives a damn.
Exactly.
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: Eric]
#1673827
09/22/14 04:54 PM
09/22/14 04:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273
PA.
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Ya and my small block Duster went 10.05@129mph on BP panther piss and a 520 lift Racer Brown cam. You can't get anymore 70's than that.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: madscientist]
#1673829
09/22/14 05:11 PM
09/22/14 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,173 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,173
CT
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So again, if you are happy running junkyard garbage and it's fun to YOU, good on ya. But there should be some backlash from all of us about the horrible RACE parts deficiency and piss poor race support that we get from MoPar and the aftermarket.
Oh I got the point, I'm just justifying the other points that most people aren't looking to make 1000+ horsepower.
And MoPars support does suck, and its not going to change. Ever. They don't care about us, for the same reason that no one else does, there's no money in it!
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: slantzilla]
#1673832
09/22/14 05:41 PM
09/22/14 05:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,872 CheddarHead till October
weedlayer
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,872
CheddarHead till October
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I prolly won't read this entire thread.
You are a very wise man.
I prolly wish I hadn't followed it from the stert, but you know what they say about train wrecks, just gotta keep looking. Where's the smiley with a gun to my head?
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: camastomcat]
#1673833
09/22/14 05:45 PM
09/22/14 05:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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While there is some great info here ....the personal stuff has to end......now...next guy gets the cooler
I agree, this wasn't my intention. How about going a different direction and getting into the technical aspect of combos 950HP and up? I would like to hear what guys like Monte, Best, Koffel, Bob G., Marsh and others are working on, and keep the BS to a minimum. I'm looking for generalities, as I know a lot of you have competition that would like to know specifics. I don't even care if it's Mopar or not......if that's allowed? It's more about where to finding information and parts.
950hp? a junk yard 4.8 and ebay turbo. $2k
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: madscientist]
#1673834
09/22/14 05:52 PM
09/22/14 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
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I have built Mopar engines every day for over 25 years--that means a lot of them. Some wonders --that won championships and some turds that well...were just that but...98% were just fine , however I am always surprised when one I built 7 years ago-- finally gives up at the race track- and I get a call --'what am I going to do about it?" then..a dear friend that has built engines for over 40 years says to me If they can't afford to blow one up every now and then NO matter who or what was at fault --then...this ain't the hobby for them. It is tougher every day that passes to justify doing more--with parts quality what it is and budgets way less than it really takes to cover all the bases When I really think it over --I know we were better off sticking a 509 cam in a junk yard 440 stuffing that into a $700 Duster and having FUN. Way better than where we are now with a $15K build being pretty normal. I sinned and built myself a 350 small block Chevy for my Nostalgia dragster--a nice 200 inch old school looking fun machine--well after doing all that "sinning" without doing all that much spending I can say that it is the best bang for the buck since those .509 in a old 440 days Bash if you must --I do not care but I am racing--going fast as I need to--and doing it on the cheap which...
Makes it FUN AGAIN!!! and if it blows all to pieces --well..it was just a friggin SBC--who gives a damn.
Exactly.
Didn't see this but I agree. Again I'm not a racer, but 509 cammed junk yard engines are what got me into Mopars. Unfortunately I was born about 20 years too late for that. When I rebuilt my engine I thought it'd be great to have a fresh engine exactly the way I wanted it, and once it was done and I figured what I have into it (not including time), I probably could be almost as fast if I just re-rung and bearinged the engine and shoved some more cheap 70s tech into it with a 509 cam and let it burn some oil. And my car would be painted.
So you guys are missing the OP's original point. If a 509 cam and a junkyard 440 flips your beenie then good on you. I sold my car in 2007 and don't miss it a single bit. I now have a mid 12 second daily driver that I will put into the mid 11's over the winter and I will do it on passenger car heads. But I will use a custom SFT cam. I could go HRT but that is so common now that it bores me. 340 CID. I could make it faster but I don't want to have a roll bar.
So again, if you are happy running junkyard garbage and it's fun to YOU, good on ya. But there should be some backlash from all of us about the horrible RACE parts deficiency and piss poor race support that we get from MoPar and the aftermarket.
Not really missing the point, just stating that when you get into that game of going faster and faster, it gets more expensive and un-fun when you start breaking parts. The point is even the best parts fail from time to time in racing, and Mopar has been at a disadvantage with parts ever since the 80's so it's pretty much beating a dead horse. The only exception where Mopar is king is at the very top of the Drag racing heap, the top fuel Hemis, and who's got the money and time for that? Now granted, I'm going to build a blown aluminum block Hemi one day, but it will take a few years and it will be all used parts! lol
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: madscientist]
#1673836
09/23/14 12:55 PM
09/23/14 12:55 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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My only issue with you, is your constantly belittling Mopar guys as cheap dinosaurs, for not buying the same parts you claim aren't good enough for you !! I find that ironic and hypocritical...
This whole post is because a few Mopar guys talked about how nice it would be to have blocks available priced similar to chevy blocks....and the bashing began....
Most of your posts are very interesting, straight to the point, make perfect sense.....
I said this, not Monty. If you think main girdles and off the shelf cams are for you, I would not build you anything. It's that simple.
Monty has said this and insinuated it many times, but now appears to be backtracking on it, cool....
I wouldn't have you build me anything, it's that simple, so we are good....
Just curious, would you build ANY Mopar engine, since you seem to feel they are all inferior and silly ?? I apologize if I have interpreted your statements incorrectly, but from all you've said, it seems to be your belief.
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