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Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: 80fbody] #1673447
09/22/14 11:03 AM
09/22/14 11:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
Quote:

Unfortunately, this is the learning curve with trans building and why some mentioned to leave most of the bushings alone if they looked good. I'd get another full set of bushings so you can redo any that don't go in right.



Agreed. I can also see that having the right tool for that particular operation is key. You really need that shoulder to slip down into the bearing to get it in there smoothly.


I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673448
09/22/14 11:23 AM
09/22/14 11:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596
Mass.
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80fbody Offline
mopar
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Mass.
I purchased a quality bearing driver set which was around $70-$80 I believe. Also picked up a 20 ton Harbor Freight press. So I have a couple hundred spent for tools but they've helped out on many projects since that 1st trans.

Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: cudadon] #1673449
09/22/14 12:38 PM
09/22/14 12:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,087
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Mike how should one do a burnout @ the track with a stock (shift kit) VB so as not to overspeed the drum?





You are only going to over speed the drum if the sprag has failed and you bring it up over 6k in the burnout box.

Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: JohnRR] #1673450
09/23/14 01:27 AM
09/23/14 01:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Big Bad Bee  Offline OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
After the cracked bushing yesterday, I contacted a local mopar race transmission builder who gave me a tip on how to split and remove bushings. I also purchased a bolt in sprag. Pix to follow. Tomorrow.


I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673451
09/25/14 03:59 AM
09/25/14 03:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
Ok I'm back. I bought another complete bushing set for $15 from Transtar and elicited the advice of new friend Randy Ray of Randy's Racing Transmissions in Spokane Valley, WA. Randy is a Mopar guy and has hundreds of transmission rebuilds and quarter mile runs under his belt. Please note that while Randy is helping me with advice I welcome your ideas and thoughts.

Once Randy explained how to remove a bushing it was pretty simple. You look for the seam in the bushing and then get a very small screw driver and tap at the edge right behind it on either side of the seam, splitting it and then pushing it inward. then you get a cold chisel and just start whacking the bearing inward and splitting the seam all the way down. Sorry no picture, but it looks a bit like unzipping your pants.


This go round I lubricated both the drum and bearing with plenty of lube...



(Okay, I didn't use that, but I if it were good for lubing a trans, it would be the ONLY thing that crap is good for)

...And started it with a small 3/8" thick piece of plywood.


I set the correct depth just below the bevel in the steel race by tapping it in the rest of the way with the edge of a fir 2x4. VICTORY!!!



Next I tried to do the same the tail housing bushing.

Um No. It's too thick. There is an oil channel that runs the length or the bushing in the tail housing. Taking a suggestion from Mike (mr P Body) I got a fresh hacksaw blade and went about sawing through the bushing. It took about a half hour but when I got through it, it literally fell out.



I lubed up the bushing, Made sure to orient it so the hole in it lined up with the correct oil duct and rammed it home with the side of a 2x4.



I tapped it the rest of the way in with a fender washer.



Note. Without the shoulder that a bushing driver has, the bushing tends to pucker inward when you hit it. I test fit the driveshaft and the bushing had swelled on the end too much. I took a knife and ran it around the lip of the bushing a few times, beveling the lip and removing a little material. Now the driveshaft fits great.

I think I have the bushing issue conquered so I moved to my next pitfall, the sprag. After talking to you guys here and Randy and consulting Munroe's manual, I went with a new TCI bolt-in sprag. Yes, the Super Sprag is cool and adds an extra measure of safety but the majority say it's overkill for my application. JohnRR, I really respect you. You've taught me a lot about the best way to go about building my car. I hope you keep giving your opinion here even though this time around I didn't take your advice.

I prepped the case by taking a die grinder and beveling the teeth that the sprag meshes with. The original sprag is peened in around the edge with a small chisel. If you don't grind each of those spots where the peen is, the new sprag can possibly stick and you could crack the case.

I drilled out the threads in the case ever so slightly to give the sprag bolts a wee bit more tolerance.



Then I bent in the retaining prongs of the backing plate slightly so that they would grip the sprag during installation.



Then I put washers on the supplied allen head bolts and sucked it up to the housing turning each bolt one full revolution at a time working in a criss-cross pattern like changing a tire.



here it's sucked about 2/3 of the way in.




Done



Now that I know I can do this without destroying the case, I'll go back to disassembling each subassembly, inspecting and cleaning, and then follow Munroe's step by step reassembly and calibration.





I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673452
09/25/14 11:19 AM
09/25/14 11:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
PC-CHARGER Offline
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MB,CAN
It's difficult to see and be sure but in the picture you took of the front drum with the bushing removed, it appears you have some wear in the seal ring area. I've attached your picture with the area in question circled in red. If there is as much wear in that area as it appears, then the drum should be replaced. You should also check the sealing ring grooves on the back of the pump for damage.

8280555-drum.jpg (282 downloads)
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: PC-CHARGER] #1673453
09/25/14 02:26 PM
09/25/14 02:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
I Live Here
Big Bad Bee  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Quote:

It's difficult to see and be sure but in the picture you took of the front drum with the bushing removed, it appears you have some wear in the seal ring area. I've attached your picture with the area in question circled in red. If there is as much wear in that area as it appears, then the drum should be replaced. You should also check the sealing ring grooves on the back of the pump for damage.




I'll go back tonight and check it. What am I looking for? It's shiny where the seal rubs but there aren't any grooves or galling. Looking forward to installing yet another high drum bushing...


I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673454
09/25/14 03:55 PM
09/25/14 03:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
PC-CHARGER Offline
super stock
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Posts: 916
MB,CAN
If it is just shiny where the seal rings ride, you're fine but in the picture it almost looks grooved and that's no good. If you can catch a fingernail on the shiny area, then it's worn beyond what can be reused.

Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: PC-CHARGER] #1673455
09/25/14 09:31 PM
09/25/14 09:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
D
dusturbd340W5 Offline
master
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Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
yeah that sure looks like a groove


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: dusturbd340W5] #1673456
09/26/14 06:30 PM
09/26/14 06:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
I Live Here
Big Bad Bee  Offline OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
That bore is definitely grooved. I will be rolling out to Transtar to plop down more money for another drum this afternoon. The fun never stops...


I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673457
09/26/14 06:40 PM
09/26/14 06:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
ontario canada kingston
aspenrt360 Offline
super stock
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ontario canada kingston
hey at least you are doing it right and not just slapping it together


2013 Chrysler 300 touring 1974 Dodge Charger SE. 360-727-8.75-3.23 sure grip 1972 Dodge Dart Swinger 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673458
09/26/14 08:01 PM
09/26/14 08:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
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super stock
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MB,CAN
Don't forget to check the corresponding seal ring grooves on the back of the pump. Often when they groove the drum like this it will also rub on the ring grooves and damage them as well. Also check any other bores where there are seal rings for any kind of wear. You should also check the ring grooves themselves for step wear that would increase side clearance. By design, the seal rings rotate in unison with the rotating part. If everything is working properly the rotation should be between the ring and the stationary pump seal ring grooves so you will see step wear in the ring grooves but obviously that doesn't always happen.

Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: PC-CHARGER] #1673459
09/26/14 08:33 PM
09/26/14 08:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596
Mass.
8
80fbody Offline
mopar
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Mass.
Rebuilt pump is an option and generally not too expensive. Think mine was around $50-$60. Comes with new gears and bushing already installed. I also found very quickly that you typically can't just slap the $200 rebuild kit in and go unless it's going behind a completely stock motor.

Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: 80fbody] #1673460
09/26/14 10:36 PM
09/26/14 10:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
Thank you, guys. I get this for sure. Almost my entire build has been based on moderation. I've tried not to sacrifice safety and quality but I've also not gone over the top. I picked up a new drum tonight. Looks good. I'll keep moving through the build and hopefully find all the issues. I will say that this first chapter has taught me a few things.


I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673461
09/28/14 01:30 AM
09/28/14 01:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
Today was a short one but a productive one with the tranny. I worked on the front clutch retainer/input shaft assembly and carefully inspected all the splines, sealing surfaces, guide channels, lip seal groves and and the bushing for wear, resurfaced the pressure plates with 120 grit and cleaned everything up real good in the mineral spirit bathtub. Happy to say, that the whole thing looked great and I don't foresee any replacement other than the seals. I realized after it was pointed out by a moparts member that my high drum was scored, that as I tear down each assembly, I need to see how all the bearing, bushing, guide and ring surfaces work together and look at them all with care. It's fun!

Next I tore down the pump pulling all the seals. This too made me smile. the pump gear and ring look to be in good shape and I measured them with a feeler gauge. Gear gap is okay. So is the space between the ring and the race it sits in, and the height of the ring and center gears.



The pump looks really nice in the bore.



Try as I might, I couldn't figure out where the seam in the pump bushing was. Gave it several whacks with the corner of a sharp little cold chisel. I was tapping around the edge trying to be patient and I couldn't get it to budge. Then I got an idea. The old tail piece bushing is almost the same size. I lined the edge of the tail bushing with the edge on one side of the pump bushing and gave it a whack. BINGO! Easy peazy. I just moved around the lip of the pump bushing whacking the tail bushing and it was out in a flash. I'll load the new bushing tomorrow, clean it all up and move on to the reverse drum. My pile of clean parts is growing.


after making about 10 grooves in this bearing and not budging it, I smacked it with the tail bushing. Happy day...



I was wondering what one of the guys posting here was talking about on peening this bearing over. Here you can see that there are two C shaped notches where the bearing should be peened outword. I am assuming that this helps it from failing and spinning with the torque converter


I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673462
09/28/14 01:42 AM
09/28/14 01:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
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super stock
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MB,CAN
Pump looks good. If your measurements are all within spec, then it's good to go. I replied to another post about replacing a front pump bushing that explained about the two notches in the bushing and how to use a blunt 1/4" punch to peen the new bushing in place.

Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: PC-CHARGER] #1673463
09/28/14 02:38 AM
09/28/14 02:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
I Live Here
Big Bad Bee  Offline OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
Quote:

Pump looks good. If your measurements are all within spec, then it's good to go. I replied to another post about replacing a front pump bushing that explained about the two notches in the bushing and how to use a blunt 1/4" punch to peen the new bushing in place.




Thank you, Rick! I finally see what you're saying. and yup. All the measurements were well within tolerances. I'll be pulling the PTC torque converter out of the box tomorrow to test the fit with the new bushing once I get her in place.


I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673464
10/14/14 10:02 PM
10/14/14 10:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
I'm back with a few more updates. My one week project has turned into a fall project...

I've got a question. What is this thing? Munroe says zip about it.



I noticed what looked like foam or something on the inside. After I cleaned the pump plate with solvent, I was drying it with compressed air. In an attempt to blow this unit out, whatever was blocking the side that faces the engine blew apart and fell inside it. You can see a little remaining. I am assuming that the part pops out and you snap in a new unit. Help me out here.



With the case and all it's components checked and bushings replaced, every part cleaned with mineral spirits and blown dry with compressed air, I moved to the valve body. I split the halves and placed all the parts in labelled bags. as I did this, I videotaped each section to show how the valves came out and how their springs were arranged.




after cleaning all the parts and drying, I laid them all out on a clean surface under their baggies as assemblies and cleaned up the large pieces, really working at all the passageways. Here they are all ready to reassemble.


Previous to cleaning the separator plate and halves, I drilled passages in the plate and worked the valve body as per the instructions in my TransGo shift kit. The guy that sells this kit has a sense of humor.



I tried to listen up but heard nothing...

I got out my TransGo shift kit and went over the instructions, figuring out where in the reassembly process the parts would go.



Watching the videos in reverse order, I reassembled the valve body. great news. No left over parts. it was fun and pretty simple.



Just a couple minor details and she's going back together.

Don't forget to tell me what that plastic thingy-mo-bob is and if I have to replace it.


I’m listening.
Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673465
10/14/14 10:11 PM
10/14/14 10:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
That little plastic thingy you refer to is the trans breather vent. What you saw come out was probably some sort of filter material to separate the trans fluid from the air.

I'm pretty sure that shouldn't have happened and that it does need to be in there. IMHO, you have 2 options. First, drill and tap the hole on the outside for an NPT pipe plug and relocate the vent or, Call John Cope and see what he recommends you do about a replacement breather.

Re: My On-Going 727 Rebuild Questions Post [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1673466
10/14/14 11:14 PM
10/14/14 11:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
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super stock
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MB,CAN
As Bill says, that plastic part is a baffle for your vent.I've never seen anything inside them so I'm not sure what would have blown out when you blew air in it. Possible some dirt build up?

I've attached a picture of your valve body. Looks good but the adjuster for the pressure regulator looks crooked. Is it just the angle of the picture? I've highlighted the area in red.

8300573-vb.jpg (314 downloads)
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