Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: B3RE]
#1663064
08/27/14 12:34 AM
08/27/14 12:34 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Also, are there any issues regarding valve cover clearances I need to be concerned with when using your kit? ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif)
Sorry I forgot to answer this. If you are using anything but stock height valve covers, you should be fine, but clearances are something that should always be checked anyway.
If need be.. stack up 2 gaskets ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif)
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1663067
08/27/14 04:27 AM
08/27/14 04:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,296 Tucson AZ,
MadMopars
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,296
Tucson AZ,
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Quote:
JMO but I think the heads are the choke BUT the valve springs might be weak and cause the upper RPM issue
The springs are fairly new. They may have 50 passes on them at most. If my memory is correct, at 1.9" installed height they were showing around 180lbs closed and 420lbs open. This was per my machinist. As such, he installed offset keepers to reduce spring pressure slightly. I figured I would check them after a break in period to re-evaluate the necessity of offset keepers. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif)
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1663068
08/27/14 04:52 AM
08/27/14 04:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,296 Tucson AZ,
MadMopars
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,296
Tucson AZ,
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Quote:
Do NOT put on larger primary headers. That will kill the lowend. I would also not use the 4.88 gears or the tunnelram. The tunnelram would probably run good, but that's not the "look" you're after. Like you mentioned, I'm also not a fan of slow "racecars".
The exhaust will benefit from a crossover...X pipe makes more power than an H, if you don't mind the sound of an X pipe. Either one will be better than true duals.
I don't argue that a straight through muffler flows better than a flowmaster, but on this combo I don't think they'll make much difference. I ran an old pair of 3" 2 chamber flowmasters on my car when it was running mid 11s...made no difference w/ or w/o them. If your flowmasters are the bigger 3 chambers, then scrap them and get some straight through mufflers like a Dynomax ultraflow or Hooker max flow.
The Holley SD is a VERY good manifold...I'd stick w/ it. A properly tuned bigger carb will definitely help. 440's love cfm...put an 830, 850, or even a 950 double pumper on it.
I'd keep the cam you have. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif)
You could always throw some .020" thick steel shim head gaskets on it to gain some compression quickly and easily. Cheap too. Of course it wouldn't cost much to have another .020" or .030" shaved off the heads while you have them off.
It would probably like a looser converter too. You can have your current converter loosened up by any of the good converter companies.
In my experience, the electric water pump will be worth nearly a whole tenth in the 1/4 by itself. On my car, I dropped a little over a tenth by eliminating the big clutch fan...still had the mechanical water pump. Dropped almost another tenth w/ an electric water pump. If you get one of the moroso water pump drive kits, you can switch to it at the track...just swap to a shorter belt and change the pulley at the track. The moroso water pump drive will not keep cool on the street.
Just to touch on this.
My Flowmasters are the 2 Chambers as I recall. It was years ago that I purchased them but I'm 95% certain of this.
I already have the steel head gaskets. I am not entirely opposed to cutting my current heads though. Just haven't committed yet.
I will without a doubt try the 850 once more. Not necessarily the same 850 though.
The Street Dominator will be going back on. It was the better performing intake in this application.
I also will be installing the electric water pump (Direct Drive). If nothing else is gained but ease of cool down in between runs, it will still be worth it.
As far as converter replacement, I've got mixed feelings. I would hate to lose street driveability. It's marginally obnoxious now with the 3500 stall and 4:56 gears.
4:88's are on the fence still. Once I get my motor to rev past 6000 without slowing down it may seem more tempting. I was pretty interested in a low gear set for the 727 as an alternative as Cab mentioned, then I priced them out.![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eeek.gif)
Anyhow, Thanks again everyone! I really appreciate the help and input you offer. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif)
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: MadMopars]
#1663069
08/27/14 08:36 AM
08/27/14 08:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,042 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,042
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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[ Regarding compression, I know it's holding me back a good amount. I just hate to throw a bunch of money at it right now. By the time I buy the pistons, bore the motor, get rid of my stupid "six pack rods", balance it, buy gaskets and rings it'll be a good chunk of change. I have a 13:1 451 short block and a 10.5:1 440 long block sitting in the garage for other projects. I just assume throw one of those in there for a bit before I throw a ton of money at this motor right now. Purchasing cylinder heads is also probably out of the question for awhile. Cutting mine down does seem tempting though as does advancing the cam. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1343795-scratchchin.gif) I've contemplated advancing the cam, even considered swapping rocker arms to 1.6's. Again, these are substantially cheaper projects and involve modifying or changing parts I already have so perhaps that adds appeal.
If you have access to a leak down tester, it would be great to see just what you are working with for ring seal and running compression. I agree that your best bet is to go with one of the better short blocks you currently have if you don't want to spend much money at this point on fixing this short block. Higher compression along with advancing the cam may show the results you want. You need all the extra torque you can build into this thing because your converter is fairly low stall and the car is very heavy. The gears are already plenty steep, and a 4.30 or even 4.10 might work as well with the right converter stall. At the worst, once the converter is stalling enough to get the car moving, the gains or losses from a gear change go way down. I would shoot for 6200 max rpm in the lights.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: MadMopars]
#1663070
08/27/14 08:40 AM
08/27/14 08:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141 junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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You have a good combo in my honest opinion. You just need more power. my vote is to leave everything else alone and focus on adding compression. It adds power across the entire rpm range and will compliment your current cam. That will be by far your best bang imo.
Last edited by viperblue72; 08/27/14 08:48 AM.
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: MadMopars]
#1663071
08/27/14 10:04 AM
08/27/14 10:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,419 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,419
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
Quote:
Do NOT put on larger primary headers. That will kill the lowend. I would also not use the 4.88 gears or the tunnelram. The tunnelram would probably run good, but that's not the "look" you're after. Like you mentioned, I'm also not a fan of slow "racecars".
The exhaust will benefit from a crossover...X pipe makes more power than an H, if you don't mind the sound of an X pipe. Either one will be better than true duals.
I don't argue that a straight through muffler flows better than a flowmaster, but on this combo I don't think they'll make much difference. I ran an old pair of 3" 2 chamber flowmasters on my car when it was running mid 11s...made no difference w/ or w/o them. If your flowmasters are the bigger 3 chambers, then scrap them and get some straight through mufflers like a Dynomax ultraflow or Hooker max flow.
The Holley SD is a VERY good manifold...I'd stick w/ it. A properly tuned bigger carb will definitely help. 440's love cfm...put an 830, 850, or even a 950 double pumper on it.
I'd keep the cam you have. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif)
You could always throw some .020" thick steel shim head gaskets on it to gain some compression quickly and easily. Cheap too. Of course it wouldn't cost much to have another .020" or .030" shaved off the heads while you have them off.
It would probably like a looser converter too. You can have your current converter loosened up by any of the good converter companies.
In my experience, the electric water pump will be worth nearly a whole tenth in the 1/4 by itself. On my car, I dropped a little over a tenth by eliminating the big clutch fan...still had the mechanical water pump. Dropped almost another tenth w/ an electric water pump. If you get one of the moroso water pump drive kits, you can switch to it at the track...just swap to a shorter belt and change the pulley at the track. The moroso water pump drive will not keep cool on the street.
Just to touch on this.
My Flowmasters are the 2 Chambers as I recall. It was years ago that I purchased them but I'm 95% certain of this.
I already have the steel head gaskets. I am not entirely opposed to cutting my current heads though. Just haven't committed yet.
I will without a doubt try the 850 once more. Not necessarily the same 850 though.
The Street Dominator will be going back on. It was the better performing intake in this application.
I also will be installing the electric water pump (Direct Drive). If nothing else is gained but ease of cool down in between runs, it will still be worth it.
As far as converter replacement, I've got mixed feelings. I would hate to lose street driveability. It's marginally obnoxious now with the 3500 stall and 4:56 gears.
4:88's are on the fence still. Once I get my motor to rev past 6000 without slowing down it may seem more tempting. I was pretty interested in a low gear set for the 727 as an alternative as Cab mentioned, then I priced them out.![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eeek.gif)
Anyhow, Thanks again everyone! I really appreciate the help and input you offer.
I didn't say converter replacement, just readjust what you have. If a good converter company gets ahold of your converter, it won't be any worse on the street at all...as long as what you currently have has the ability to be adjusted accordingly. I have a 5,000 stall in mine and it drives great on the street...people have ridden in it and commented on how good this converter drives on the street. GOOD converters don't slip a lot on the street. W/ that said, the converter would probably the last thing I made any changes to right now w/ your combo. Add some more power first, then loosen the converter later on. There's no reason that combo needs 4.88 gears in my opinion and you don't need to spin it any higher than about 6200 rpm. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif)
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1663073
08/27/14 02:03 PM
08/27/14 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,170 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,170
CT
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I think you're doing pretty good for stock heads, that corrects to about an 11.75 @ 112. I'd say anything else to be had is in your jetting, and if you want to go faster its in your heads.
How stock are the heads outside of the valves? You can't get it to wind up any higher because of the heads.
Last edited by GTX MATT; 08/27/14 02:05 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1663074
08/27/14 02:30 PM
08/27/14 02:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271 Vista, California
67Satty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
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I'm in a similar spot as you. Running almost the same 60 foot and 1/8 mile times but with 3.91s and a little smaller cam and stock 452s. My DA is a little better but not much and my car probably weighs a little less.
I think the best bang-for-your-buck for guys like us is to ditch the factory iron and get some aluminum heads. 50 pounds less weight on the front end, higher compression, better flow, and better combustion chamber design.
You could spend the money on porting your 906s but you'd lose the weight loss, compression, and combustion chamber advantage.
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: viperblue72]
#1663076
08/28/14 05:09 PM
08/28/14 05:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561 USA
B3RE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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Yeah, I've heard the old "Mopars don't like to rev" argument before, but I ain't buying it. Also, bigger doesn't mean faster. Faster doesn't mean quicker. 11.99 is QUICKER than 12.30.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: viperblue72]
#1663077
08/28/14 05:17 PM
08/28/14 05:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561 USA
B3RE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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If you haven't read my posts on valvetrain geometry, start there. It will explain a lot and if you still have questions I will be happy to answer them.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: B3RE]
#1663079
08/28/14 05:23 PM
08/28/14 05:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141 junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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Quote:
If you haven't read my posts on valvetrain geometry, start there. It will explain a lot and if you still have questions I will be happy to answer them.
you post a link?
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Re: Opinions wanted, what would you change? Budget Build...
[Re: B3RE]
#1663082
08/28/14 05:32 PM
08/28/14 05:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,145 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,145
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
It's a PITA on my phone. You can do a user search for B3RE for the last year and it should all come up.
or just click your user name then click to show all posts by you ...
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