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Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: hemi-itis] #1657850 08/12/14 07:55 AM 08/12/14 07:55 AM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,392 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY Dragula I Live Here
Dragula I Live Here Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,392 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY	Quote: Quote: I have two Magnum Force units on two cars, what do you want to know? One is street/strip, the other race only for now... On the street/strip car, does the rack turn as much as the stock box?? What made you go with MF ?? Yes it turns as far, but note the wheel stance is a tad wider and lower and I run skinnies up front so if you run stock wheels and tire it might be different. I went with them because they were the only company at the time making such a kit back in 99...Now a days, there are more to choose from. The second car I did just this past winter. I am happy with it, but their customer service can suck. It was almost 4 weeks late....It really almost cancelled my race season. The Altercation will be easier to install. I really didn't need the extra shock tower, so I went with MF....Some people claim the coil overs are too much strain on the uni body stock shock towers. I can say, its been on my car over 10 years with no issues. '70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9) '66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage '71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: Dragula] #1657851 08/12/14 09:17 AM 08/12/14 09:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx Jacob Pitt master
Jacob Pitt master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx	I have one on my Challenger, the biggest draw back is lack of shock selection and frontend travel. It could really use about three more inches of travel to be a great drag racing front suspension. 2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ #4 in the World IHRA Stock 2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ 14x Track Champ All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: Al_Alguire] #1657852 08/12/14 11:08 AM 08/12/14 11:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia J jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia	Quote: I am pretty sure Magnumforce was first by a few years. I'll research that, and is that reported design still in use and/or copied by anybody, to the point was it worthy? Kinda ironic the whole topic, as in the handling section here there are usually two opposite views on RMS front ends, one side saying how weak/lame the design is, and here there are many copies/examples IMO a lot less robust then RMS, so not sure if they are dangerously weak, or the robustness is unnecessary. Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: Jacob Pitt] #1657853 08/12/14 11:15 AM 08/12/14 11:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	Quote: I have one on my Challenger, the biggest draw back is lack of shock selection and frontend travel. It could really use about three more inches of travel to be a great drag racing front suspension. Yes that is the problem with Riley's front end hemi Denny front end and Jay Waxlers front end, short front shocks. Mine use stock location shocks and has six inch Afco shocks. Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: 1967dartgt] #1657854 08/12/14 11:18 AM 08/12/14 11:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	This kit also uses your factory spindle so you can use your existing brakes. Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: 1967dartgt] #1657855 08/12/14 11:34 AM 08/12/14 11:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 508 duluth,mn P psycomopar mopar
psycomopar mopar P Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 508 duluth,mn	1967dartgt who's front-end Is yours? Str fab? Where are they located. Looks like what I'm after for mine. Like the setup.

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: 1967dartgt] #1657856 08/12/14 11:50 AM 08/12/14 11:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	Quote: Quote: I have one on my Challenger, the biggest draw back is lack of shock selection and frontend travel. It could really use about three more inches of travel to be a great drag racing front suspension. Yes that is the problem with Riley's front end hemi Denny front end and Jay Waxlers front end, short front shocks. 3" more travel??? wow didn't know my front end had a problem. BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: bigtimeauto] #1657857 08/12/14 11:54 AM 08/12/14 11:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	Quote: Quote: Quote: I have one on my Challenger, the biggest draw back is lack of shock selection and frontend travel. It could really use about three more inches of travel to be a great drag racing front suspension. Yes that is the problem with Riley's front end hemi Denny front end and Jay Waxlers front end, short front shocks. 3" more travel??? wow didn't know my front end had a problem. With cal tracs it would be a issue. With four links and ladder bars it's not a problem. Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: psycomopar] #1657858 08/12/14 11:56 AM 08/12/14 11:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,085 The Wet Coast, Canada megajoltman master
megajoltman master Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,085 The Wet Coast, Canada	What about Bob. 1969 Dart 383/727/D60 CTD Ram 4x4 Mega Cab Procharged 350Z

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: 1967dartgt] #1657859 08/12/14 11:57 AM 08/12/14 11:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: I have one on my Challenger, the biggest draw back is lack of shock selection and frontend travel. It could really use about three more inches of travel to be a great drag racing front suspension. Yes that is the problem with Riley's front end hemi Denny front end and Jay Waxlers front end, short front shocks. 3" more travel??? wow didn't know my front end had a problem. With cal tracs it would be a issue. With four links and ladder bars it's not a problem. you meant to type with good shocks and a properly setup suspension its not a problem BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: bigtimeauto] #1657860 08/12/14 12:06 PM 08/12/14 12:06 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,194 aZLiViN J J_BODY I Live Here
J_BODY I Live Here J Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,194 aZLiViN	school me on the "longer shock" deal please.... is it due to dealing with the "rise" of a leaf spring car? no clue here. There was a pretty long post last year on tube K's and lots of picts. Probably the first one that didn't turn into a "he copied" bash fest. I had three sets of springs on the front playing around before the car ever hit the track.

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: J_BODY] #1657861 08/12/14 12:11 PM 08/12/14 12:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Quote: school me on the "longer shock" deal please.... is it due to dealing with the "rise" of a leaf spring car? no clue here. There was a pretty long post last year on tube K's and lots of picts. Probably the first one that didn't turn into a "he copied" bash fest. I had three sets of springs on the front playing around before the car ever hit the track. Calvert like 5"`s of travel although some get away w/less I hear......... 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: bigtimeauto] #1657862 08/12/14 01:09 PM 08/12/14 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx Jacob Pitt master
Jacob Pitt master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: I have one on my Challenger, the biggest draw back is lack of shock selection and frontend travel. It could really use about three more inches of travel to be a great drag racing front suspension. Yes that is the problem with Riley's front end hemi Denny front end and Jay Waxlers front end, short front shocks. 3" more travel??? wow didn't know my front end had a problem. With cal tracs it would be a issue. With four links and ladder bars it's not a problem. you meant to type with good shocks and a properly setup suspension its not a problem It is a problem here with a big tire ladder bar car. When the weather heats up around here my Challenger becomes pretty useless. We see track temps in the 150+ degrees range and more front travel here would help the car hook on a more consistent basis. We race on a bracket prep so it's not always the best. When the hot weather comes around I usually run my small block big tire Dart Sport with the Bob's Pro Fab front suspension on it with 6" of travel and Afco shocks. I do like the RMS setup. It is very well built. 2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ #4 in the World IHRA Stock 2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ 14x Track Champ All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: Thumperdart] #1657863 08/12/14 01:14 PM 08/12/14 01:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 156 Southern California B BIG DRAG member
BIG DRAG member B Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 156 Southern California	I had an Alterkation kit on the front of my 65 Valiant. Good money spent. The car was a ladder bar rear suspension car. Car ran low 10's. Worked great with the ladder bar.

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: Jacob Pitt] #1657864 08/12/14 01:24 PM 08/12/14 01:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama M Monte_Smith master
Monte_Smith master M Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama	How much travel the front needs has absolutely ZERO to do with anything about the rear suspension, what type, or what size tire you have. It has to do with car setup, weight percentage, power and how much (if any) pitch rotation your car needs to hook. I have seen leaf spring cars need 4" and I have seen leaf spring cars need 1".......same with ladder bars and 4-links. Every time there is a Calvert post, it is immediately said that "Calvert says" you need 5"............maybe on a low hp something that needs a LOT of pitch rotation, but usually not on anything with power and a decent tire. And if you car won't hook with ladder bars, big tires and 3" or so of front travel..........the front is NOT the problem Monte

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: Monte_Smith] #1657865 08/12/14 01:40 PM 08/12/14 01:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Quote: How much travel the front needs has absolutely ZERO to do with anything about the rear suspension, what type, or what size tire you have. It has to do with car setup, weight percentage, power and how much (if any) pitch rotation your car needs to hook. I have seen leaf spring cars need 4" and I have seen leaf spring cars need 1".......same with ladder bars and 4-links. Every time there is a Calvert post, it is immediately said that "Calvert says" you need 5"............maybe on a low hp something that needs a LOT of pitch rotation, but usually not on anything with power and a decent tire. And if you car won't hook with ladder bars, big tires and 3" or so of front travel..........the front is NOT the problem Monte Hence the "Calvert says you need 5" but some need less" response. Watchin the faster cars leave on a string w/little ft. end travel says a lot about suspension "controll".............. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: Monte_Smith] #1657866 08/12/14 02:55 PM 08/12/14 02:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx Jacob Pitt master
Jacob Pitt master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx	Quote: How much travel the front needs has absolutely ZERO to do with anything about the rear suspension, what type, or what size tire you have. It has to do with car setup, weight percentage, power and how much (if any) pitch rotation your car needs to hook. I have seen leaf spring cars need 4" and I have seen leaf spring cars need 1".......same with ladder bars and 4-links. Every time there is a Calvert post, it is immediately said that "Calvert says" you need 5"............maybe on a low hp something that needs a LOT of pitch rotation, but usually not on anything with power and a decent tire. And if you car won't hook with ladder bars, big tires and 3" or so of front travel..........the front is NOT the problem Monte I never said the frontend was a problem. I have had this frontend since 2007 and have put nearly 2000 passes on and it has held up great. The original OP wanted opinions so I gave mine. With my kind of racing I need repeatability not just fast times so when a car varies in the 60' it makes things a lot harder on me to do my job. I have tried many things over the years to solve my issues including different front springs, custom valved front shocks, different driveshaft angles, ladder bar angles, rear shock settings, rear ride height, front ride height, moved weight around, and tire sizes. Nothing has really helped and when the tracks get hot around here which is from May-September I would really like more frontend travel. 2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ #4 in the World IHRA Stock 2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ 14x Track Champ All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: 1967dartgt] #1657867 08/12/14 04:53 PM 08/12/14 04:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,155 Tucson, Arizona clonestocker top fuel
clonestocker top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,155 Tucson, Arizona	Quote: Love mine, been 162mph with it. Brad, Stop teasing me with all your pictures. I can't get it pinned downed . Shoot you a PM later today. [img] [/img]

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: Jacob Pitt] #1657868 08/12/14 04:57 PM 08/12/14 04:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	Does anybody know how much travel the Alterkation has? How much a stock front end has? how much the other aftermarket front ends have? How far can you extend the front before the ball joint angle becomes severe and tries to break? I mean if were going to say one is lacking lets see what it has in relation to the others. I mean with all of this travel I would love to see the bump steer measurements on these long travel front ends I have never found a reason to measure any front end travel but maybe I will start making notes.... BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Alterkation drag only setup [Re: bigtimeauto] #1657869 08/12/14 05:01 PM 08/12/14 05:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

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