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Re: What i learned at my first autox in the valiant
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1657196
08/12/14 06:26 AM
08/12/14 06:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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So running a stock oil pan 340 on a road course with only the factory windage tray is a bad idea huh?!
Big Willow Springs has more long gradual corners. I ran there a few times without I direct issue. BUT I had Dr Bob drive/instruct the car once (ran road race cars at national competitive level) he sucked the pan dry in two laps. The hydraulic lifters clattered, oil foamed, and I waited about an hour for things to settled down. I think Jim Lusk was there.
Two years later #6 rod bearing started to thud. And then I starting complaining to the owner of Milodon who is in our car club about the lack of a small block mopar road race pan.
Tighter tracks can be more of an issue.
Isn't there one now?
I believe Autoxcuda had some influence in that. However, compared to the other oil pans (like the street/strip) it is pretty expensive. Somewhere around $350-400+ depending on the vendor.
Yes. I bugged the owner of Milodon for couple years or so. I have an old "do it yourself" Milodon circle track sump kit and I was going to make one myself. He said many people were unsuccessful in some way and those kits were a PITA for the company and made them look bad even though they didn't make the pan.
After my rod bearing went bad, he said he'd just make me a pan. Out of pity I think. I pitched him the popularity of the whole pro-touring deal, he thought about it, and started the project with idea of making it a production piece.
I brought over (~4-5 minute drive) a 73-76 K-member and motor mounts, steering gear, etc to the Milodon plant and we mocked it up. Then he made revisions.
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Re: What i learned at my first autox in the valiant
[Re: buconine]
#1657198
08/12/14 12:44 PM
08/12/14 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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I believe there are baffeled gas tanks on the market that would fit our cars in the stock location... but my experience is to run only ~1/3-1/4-1/8 tank of fuel (less weight! and it eliminates the fuel spills)... I run a stock tank.. but I also wrap a small rag around the gas cap.
Trans pan --- 1st gear should not have any effect. over-filling the trans will alow spillage. I suggest for you to change the fill tube with a locking-type stick (Mancicni and others sell them).. the rubber gasket fits/seals better.
Flex-fans... not allowed in SCCA Solo/autocross.. danger from breaking (although I've never had that problem with mine.. and I questioned SCCA rules committee about their decision from years ago.... they felt is was safety as per drag-race history of flexfans breaking... perhaps el-cheapo-type flex fans do break).
Invest in a good radiator.. and absolutely use a shroud around the fan.... and/or use electric fans (but they add weight up front where you don't want it).
Walking the courses will eventually make this "memorization" a 2nd-nature to you... you'll teach yourself to quickly learn and memorize each different course/wknd.... concentration!!!.. mental notes! learn to "speed read" the course in your mind. On the otherhand, if you attend road race tracks, well... those courses typically never change their layout. If you recieve course maps on paper, mark your apex locations. Talk with other experienced drivers for their advice. Keep a log book (location, surface type (asphalt/concrete), temps, tire psi, etc.
Good luck with the future mods to your car. Don't comprimise too much or you'll only wish you went full-throttle with the mods. GET A RULE BOOK from the club(s) you'll be racing with and build your car around those club rules... Don't waiste excessive $$ on mods that will place you into another class/category where you'd only find yourself non-competative because you didn't modify your car even further to the rule book's limits for that class/category. In other words, spend your $$ wisely. Read and study the allowable rules BEFORE you make the mods. Plan and budget... time and $$$. In the long run, its much more fun being competative, rather than not competative.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: What i learned at my first autox in the valiant
[Re: buconine]
#1657199
08/12/14 08:07 PM
08/12/14 08:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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Hey, You got to drive to drive on a good course!  Sortof in order of importance. 1. Fix the car. It's very hard to stay focus on driving when there are mechanical issues. There's just no time in autocross for even the slightest distraction. 2. Hot. You mean the coolant or the oil? Oil> The oil should not be getting excessively hot from autocross. When excessive oil temps occur, its normally under long periods of high load like driving at high speed for long periods of time, or towing, mountains etc. Coolant> Coolant can get hot under a number of conditions. If the car is at low speed, anything to improve the efficiency of the fan is will help. Flex-fan > I had a Chrysler flex fan send a 1/2 a blade into the side of the battery outside of Fredricksburg Virginia. Post-mortum showed a small crack had existed for a while before it suddenly fractured through. Every part has its weaknesses. I learned that one the hard way. 3. Oil control. All of the center sump LA oil pans are relatively poor in terms of oil control. The sump is very short. Some are slightly worse. Horizontal baffles on all four sides will help. On the sides, slightly higher baffles will help. Take a pan, fill the sump with water and tilt 45 degrees to represent 1 g of acceleration and you'll see what's going on. 3a. More Oil. Maybe, but the risk is that the oil will at times be high enough in the sump to get hit by the crank. This will aerate the oil. Not worth the risk. 3b. Windage tray. Cut or punch more louvers. (This is from the old Direct Connection bulletins). 4. Oil-weight. Oil weight depends on oil temperature and bearing clearence. Going to higher weight will result in less volume reaching the bearings and top end. Exception is if on the track the oil temps are higher than normal. Then higher wt at higher temperature will result in approximately the same viscosity at the lower wt at lower oil temperature. Oil temp and oil pressure gages are good tools for making this decision. 5. Autocross. Hey you had fun. That IS the main point, right?  Some suggestions basically along the lines of what Mitch and others have written. Walk the course, Walk the course again, then Walk the Course. Now drive it in your head! Walk it again. During my walk throughs, I first get a lay of the land. By this I mean I make a big picture in my head of the overall shape and elements. Then I look for key cones, markers, and misleading cones. Oh yes. Most serious SCCA events have at least a few misleading cones and also elements that lack a good apex markers. This is a game and it has its tricks just like all games do. While driving, look as far down the road as you can. Keep it smooth, smooth, smooth especially corner entry. Look as far ahead as you can - between the cones. Try to think ahead as well. First book on The Handling Reading List may be of interest. Also might find Roger Johnson's how to design an autocross course interesting. A web search should turn up the most current version.
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Re: What i learned at my first autox in the valiant
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1657202
08/13/14 02:13 PM
08/13/14 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
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Yeah, Mopars weren't designed to go around corners very hard! You'll be finding and fixing leaks for as long as you turn corners. Those cars leak everywhere once you start pulling some G's. Tim and I chased leaks for years on the red Valiant. Whenever the car got faster we would find another leak.
I'm hoping some of the advice in this threads allows me to get up the leak curve a bit faster. I may have to rethink my valve cover baffles and I never thought of the rear axle breather. Thanks for the good ideas. Keep em coming.
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Yes. I bugged the owner of Milodon for couple years or so.
I, for one, am thankful for this. I've picked up two since this was created. Any idea how well they are selling? I hope it doesn't turn into a discontinued item in another couple of years.
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Re: What i learned at my first autox in the valiant
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1657204
08/13/14 05:23 PM
08/13/14 05:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Yes. I bugged the owner of Milodon for couple years or so.
I, for one, am thankful for this. I've picked up two since this was created. Any idea how well they are selling? I hope it doesn't turn into a discontinued item in another couple of years.
Last I asked him it was doing fine. I just heard someone on another board that bought one recently.
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Re: What i learned at my first autox in the valiant
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1657208
08/16/14 03:28 PM
08/16/14 03:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Yes. I bugged the owner of Milodon for couple years or so.
I, for one, am thankful for this. I've picked up two since this was created. Any idea how well they are selling? I hope it doesn't turn into a discontinued item in another couple of years.
Last I asked him it was doing fine. I just heard someone on another board that bought one recently.
From Summit:
Ok, we are talking about two different things. I think it got confusing because I mentioned that sump do it yourself kit from Moroso. My bad.
The pre made road racing small block mopar oil pan from Milodon is readily available.
A long time ago Milodon make a do it yourself kit like that Moroso kit. And Milodon does not make it anymore. Apparently Moroso still does.
According to the summit link I posted, the moroso kit is NOT available, but so far to me its unconfirmed if it is also is still offered anywhere. I like the kit solution as it allowed custom tweaking, rather then one size fits all. I am doubtful of the validity of the bad kit installs being a bad mark on the manufacturer, and in the over a decade here on mopars, I have never heard that comment, not saying it hasn't happened, I really suspect the profitability and sales are much higher though with a completed pan. 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: What i learned at my first autox in the valiant
[Re: jcc]
#1657209
08/16/14 06:47 PM
08/16/14 06:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:
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Yes. I bugged the owner of Milodon for couple years or so.
I, for one, am thankful for this. I've picked up two since this was created. Any idea how well they are selling? I hope it doesn't turn into a discontinued item in another couple of years.
Last I asked him it was doing fine. I just heard someone on another board that bought one recently.
From Summit:
Ok, we are talking about two different things. I think it got confusing because I mentioned that sump do it yourself kit from Moroso. My bad.
The pre made road racing small block mopar oil pan from Milodon is readily available.
A long time ago Milodon make a do it yourself kit like that Moroso kit. And Milodon does not make it anymore. Apparently Moroso still does.
According to the summit link I posted, the moroso kit is NOT available, but so far to me its unconfirmed if it is also is still offered anywhere. I like the kit solution as it allowed custom tweaking, rather then one size fits all. I am doubtful of the validity of the bad kit installs being a bad mark on the manufacturer, and in the over a decade here on mopars, I have never heard that comment, not saying it hasn't happened, I really suspect the profitability and sales are much higher though with a completed pan.
I didn't say it was a bad kit.
But the people doing the fab incorrectly blame it on the kit. The manufacturer get calls with all kinds of questions. The labor dollars answering question could have just built the pan. And when someone sees homemade kit pan that's butched up, they associate the whole construction with the manufacture made it rather than the car owner that built a kit.
Yes, I'm sure there's more profit in the constructed pan. It's just there are other reasons too.
Wouldn't the person capable of welding, fitting, cutting that kit also be able to cut and weld the kickouts and make the trap doors themselves?
No doubt, the kit is a great head start. But I don't think it's unavailability prevents someone from making there own pan.
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Re: What i learned at my first autox in the valiant
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1657210
08/16/14 11:54 PM
08/16/14 11:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,220
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,220
Someplace you aren't
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Why would going from a deeper trans pan back to stock help with the trans dip stick leak?
I want my fair share
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