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Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: Dodgem] #1656900
08/12/14 08:51 PM
08/12/14 08:51 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,522
Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
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Wedgeman Offline
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Quote:

I set my timing at 43 but if you whack the throttle good you can see it backs up to 39 ish.

You need lots of advance on that cam and lots of rpms I ran a 272/282 .700 lift 110 LSA in my 452 installed at 100 and it loved 7600 to 7800 shifts.

Same combo now with 255/263 .700 lift 108 LSA installed at 103 runs same times with 7200 shifts.




I did the test 2 weeks ago, I had 46* adv in my Indy headed 408 and the best 60ft was 1.30 !

Last week I backed it down to 38* and could not run better than 1.39 sec 60ft and it cost me a full .1 sec on the 1/8 mile....

Oh I forgot to mention, I added 10% methyl hydrate to the gasoline mix..........

Dan

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: Wedgeman] #1656901
08/13/14 01:51 AM
08/13/14 01:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 312
illinois
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dodgeram1998 Offline OP
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46 degrees advance?
your fuel is which octane gas plus the methyl hydrate?

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1656902
08/13/14 08:14 AM
08/13/14 08:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Quote:

46 degrees advance?
your fuel is which octane gas plus the methyl hydrate?



You have a low 10 second car that the chassis is working well.

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1656903
08/13/14 10:53 AM
08/13/14 10:53 AM
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Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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So what you will find is you can set your timing at 43 46 but under load it will back up. sometimes a lot. I have personally seen from 2 (pretty good) to 8 thats bad.

I too run a gear drive

A few years back when I decided to figure out how a shaft collar works and why I found my timing was backing up 7/8 degrees under load so when I thought I had 39 I had 31/32 going down the track. the shaft collar limited that to 2/3 degrees and so setting at 39 still I ran almost 2 tenths quicker now it was 36/37 under load. later that year I went all the way up to 42 which seemed to back up to 38/39 and ran quicker yet. This was with 11.85 to 1 compression Sunoco 94 which I tested last year and is 10% ethanol.

This year mine seems to be backing up 5 6 under load (I think the brass gear has some wear again) so last time out set it at 43 and have it at 45 for next time out.

Was explaining this timing roll back to a friend and next time I seen him he told me they checked the timing on his dads 500 and when they thought they had 36 they had 33 under load so they went up to 39 and now have 36 and picked up a tenth.

So this came up when I picked my balancing up for my 574 and he said oh yea we have found this even on locked out dizzy's not sure if it is all slack being taken out or some right in the electronics as rpms come up but they now like to set timing as they run on the dyno to see where it really goes and set accordingly. They said one customer they have with locked out timing they showed him by 6000 his was back 12 degree. when they put it up it gained about 40 hp.

They made an ingenious rig to run motors on their chassis dyno. rear end with slicks, short drive shaft, tranny (5 speed i think) and then set up that any motor can be bolted into the rig powering through the clutch.

Anyways according to him the best way to get a true rock solid timing is to go to a crank pick up. Then your locked out dizzy is only aiming the spark and your timing chain (timing gears) cam walk, distributor drive (wear) are all taken out of the equation.

so this is on my wish list
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/msd-8636/overview/make/chrysler

They said if you have advanced till you got your best ET's you will not run any faster but timing is rock solid and not moving all over so easier to dial in.


PS the reason the shaft collar works is the pump/distributor drive gear can move up and down thus advancing and retarding the distributor as we know you turn it CW to get it to go down in and CCW to get it to come out or opposite directions big block to small. the shaft collar helps to limit this. A LOT in some cases. (think it is how deep you dizzy shaft tang is compared to depth of gear slot???)




Last edited by Dodgem; 08/13/14 10:58 AM.
Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: Dodgem] #1656904
08/13/14 01:59 PM
08/13/14 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,653
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Where did you get that shaft collar?


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1656905
08/13/14 02:19 PM
08/13/14 02:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 312
illinois
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dodgeram1998 Offline OP
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talked to Mallory today and their recommendation is a -10 fuel feed line , -12 return line with my 4309 bypass regulator and comp 250 that I have been using. My existing comp 250 pump -8 feed and -10 return which Mallory states is good for 200 gph which is about 500 hp , unless fuel line size is enlarged.
Braided line and fuel fittings expense will drive me up the wall now. lol
I may go dead head with my existing -10 for a feed to save a few bucks on this fuel delivery experiment to extinguish the suspect gremlin.
get me one of those distributor collars installed fuel cell vent and on the way back to the track one day

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1656906
08/13/14 02:30 PM
08/13/14 02:30 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,522
Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
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Wedgeman Offline
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Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
Régular gas

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: Dodgem] #1656907
08/13/14 03:10 PM
08/13/14 03:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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I had a post a while back about this very thing...........timing retarding as I rev the motor but only 2-3 degrees so now I just consider it a built in retard now and will run with it.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: Thumperdart] #1656908
08/13/14 11:33 PM
08/13/14 11:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner Offline
top fuel
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Chandler, AZ
Mine's retarded too…. but maybe not actually the timing itself. LOL

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: rickseeman] #1656909
08/14/14 03:46 PM
08/14/14 03:46 PM
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Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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I made mine but TSC Tractor supply or any electric motor shop carry them thin Tractor supply you get a package of 2.

http://www.amazon.com/b?node=16411911

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/countylinereg%3B-set-collar-1-2-in-dia-pack-of-2

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/pow...08501%20Collars,%20Couplings%209and%20Components"%7C~%20~%7Ccategoryl3:"603515%20Shaft%20Collars"%7C~

I would tap in an extra locking set screw and red lock tight them after positioning.

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: Duner] #1656910
08/14/14 06:10 PM
08/14/14 06:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
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State of confusion
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Quote:

Mine's retarded too…. but maybe not actually the timing itself. LOL





I hear ya and totally understand..............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1656911
09/22/14 12:31 AM
09/22/14 12:31 AM
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Posts: 312
illinois
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dodgeram1998 Offline OP
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25 HSB
94 PRI
103 SEC
e-85 1000 main body which quickfuel claims 90 pri, 99 sec is the 26 HSB baseline for the main body
New battery
run -10 feed line deadheaded to a magnafuel regulator 35 degrees and if my tach is correct at the end of today shifted at 7000 netted me a 10.00 @ 131.84 mph
the wideband still shows about 13.3 afr during the run.
1.345 60
6.363 1/8 @ 106.43
10.0 1/4 @ 131.84
New best

Last edited by dodgeram1998; 09/22/14 12:34 AM.
Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1656912
09/29/14 01:16 AM
09/29/14 01:16 AM
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Posts: 312
illinois
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dodgeram1998 Offline OP
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the 1.38 a couple weeks ago wasn't jiving me
A new best a 440 .060 went 9.95 NA

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1656913
09/29/14 01:22 AM
09/29/14 01:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
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Thumperdart Offline
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Congrats that`s what you wanted...........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: Thumperdart] #1656914
09/29/14 01:29 AM
09/29/14 01:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 312
illinois
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dodgeram1998 Offline OP
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Thanks for your support also

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1656915
09/29/14 03:07 AM
09/29/14 03:07 AM
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Thumperdart Offline
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No problem man.............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: Thumperdart] #1656916
09/29/14 09:14 AM
09/29/14 09:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Congrats that`s what you wanted...........




Now start fattening up the carb... you can use a fair
bit more fuel.... get yourself charts for E-85

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1656917
09/29/14 12:43 PM
09/29/14 12:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Glad to see ya back Mike..............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1656918
09/29/14 06:55 PM
09/29/14 06:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 312
illinois
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dodgeram1998 Offline OP
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glad to see ya Mr P body

Re: 60 ft calculation [Re: dodgeram1998] #1882843
08/01/15 01:43 PM
08/01/15 01:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 312
illinois
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dodgeram1998 Offline OP
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hope to go for an outing at the strip next weekend with the changes made to the fuell system.

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