Collapsed hydraulic lifter six pack 512 engine
#1651151
07/25/14 11:50 PM
07/25/14 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Just went thru engine a couple months ago because of constant plug fouling because of ill-fitting head to manifold geometry.
Installed Eddy Performer heads, CC Extreme Energy hydraulic roller cam, bee hive springs(150 pound install height), Scorpion roller lifters and Harland Sharp rockers. Except for a pita rear main leak which I took care of, all was well for some 700 miles,,,no plug fouling and car ran great. Initially used Joe Gibbs zinc oil, at 250 miles installed Mobil 1--5 w 30.
Finally got on it thru the gears,,Passon 4 speed,,not going over 5,800 rpm. Next day car felt sluggish with slight miss that developed into a big miss and loud valve train clatter. Pulled spark plugs on noisy side,,,number 6 fouled somewhat. Pulled rocker cover, number 6 exhaust rocker had rocker to valve .25 inch clearance. Pulled lifter, it was stuck in down position some distance from its retainer. Everything else looks just fine.
Have ordered pair of lifters from Scorpion a week ago,,,not here yet so not installed yet.
Question is: What are all possibilities of what went wrong. When engine was down I had it at very throughly cleaned out,,,was already a likely less than 2,000 mile engine,,installed new bearings and rings etc. Running KN filter.
Scorpion says possible gasket material or silicone got into lifter. I don't know how but I guess possible.
I had deliberately chosen Scorpion because reading of like problems with CC lifters and no issues with Scorpion,,,of course CC likely selling orders of magnitude more product than Scorpion might explain that for what it's worth. And now somewhere I read that CC and Scorpion sell the same lifter
I had almost gone with a solid roller,,,wishing that I had now,,,as now a bit wary of what the future will bring. Car is basically street driven with perhaps a few trips to the track in the future.
Looking for thoughts and experiences that others have experienced with hydraulic lifters collapsing. In 50 years never had one fail before,,,but never had one with 150 pounds of installed height seat pressure before either.
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 07/25/14 11:53 PM.
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Re: Collapsed hydraulic lifter six pack 512 engine
[Re: ademon]
#1651155
07/26/14 04:46 AM
07/26/14 04:46 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
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OP
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Northern Calyfornua
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Quote:
Why the M1 5/30?
. Typo, should have said 5 w 20. Is that worse or is it the Mobil 1 that you question? Running 7 qt road race Milodon, see no reason for heavier oil. Have used Mobil 1 for many years with never an engine failure,,,no reason I know to change I guess,,,except at break in. And with roller lifters, I question that in my mind. Also no windage tray,,,,to much hassle with little if any upside for street engine. Also zero sealer on oil pan(no leaks so far)and when I replace the failed lifter,,,will hopefully have none on intake turkey pan and gaskets.
The stuff doubles the time to do a job,,,and when I pulled intake was disgusting the amount of this stuff that had gotten squozen into very nicely port matched heads and intake ports.
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Re: Collapsed hydraulic lifter six pack 512 engine
[Re: littleVAL]
#1651156
07/26/14 05:00 AM
07/26/14 05:00 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
OP
pro stock
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Quote:
Seems like if it has debris in the lifter disassemble it and see. If it is something that would not damage anything like silicone put it back together and run it.
Summit is overseeing warranty replacement with Scorpion...Scorpion wants failed one to check it out. If I had known it was going to take 10 days for Scorpion to drop ship to me,,,I likely would have torn it apart to check it out. Summit themselves only stock 16 lifter sets,,,hence the drop ship or I would of had new ones in a day or 2 if they had them in stock. Gotta love Summit's customer service.
Perhaps Scorpion will give postmortem results. I plan to ax.
Is another reason that I try to not use silicone unless it appears that may be forced to such as damaged or otherwise flawed gasket surfaces.
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Re: Collapsed hydraulic lifter six pack 512 engine
[Re: Sxrxrnr]
#1651157
07/26/14 10:11 AM
07/26/14 10:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,093 oberlin, Ohio
Rapid340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,093
oberlin, Ohio
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I wouldnt be surprised if lifters are collapsing and getting hammered. 5W20 seems thin for a hydraulic lifter on a BB with hyd roller spring loads.
Performance lifters are often made with more plunger to wall clearance as a fix to prevent pump-up at high rpm when the effective plunger load on the closing ramps become very small and valving response time is at or above its limits. (Of course this is happening as oil pressure is at its peak).
1971 Factory Appearing Duster 340 11.000 @ 122 mph
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Re: Collapsed hydraulic lifter six pack 512 engine
[Re: Sxrxrnr]
#1651162
07/26/14 05:15 PM
07/26/14 05:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906 IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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Quote:
Quote:
Why the M1 5/30?
. Typo, should have said 5 w 20. Is that worse or is it the Mobil 1 that you question? Running 7 qt road race Milodon, see no reason for heavier oil. Have used Mobil 1 for many years with never an engine failure,,,no reason I know to change I guess,,,except at break in. And with roller lifters, I question that in my mind. Also no windage tray,,,,to much hassle with little if any upside for street engine. Also zero sealer on oil pan(no leaks so far)and when I replace the failed lifter,,,will hopefully have none on intake turkey pan and gaskets.
The stuff doubles the time to do a job,,,and when I pulled intake was disgusting the amount of this stuff that had gotten squozen into very nicely port matched heads and intake ports. [/quote
Just seems light for a old style pushrod/big bearing mill. Problem seems to be the lifter company anyhow
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