Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1649263
07/22/14 02:06 AM
07/22/14 02:06 AM
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mshred
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Disconnect the evac hose and try it... that WILL fix your problem... your making this way to difficult
Mike, I don't think your following...the hose is disconnected lol...It has been disconnected, and I still have oil seeping past the breather grommets.
I am thinking a catch can with lines from each valve cover will do it. I found this link, might install this in the front of each valve cover to a puke tank, and then maybe cap off the original holes in the valve cover?
http://www.starvacuumpumps.com/products/STR.06.11.001
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: mshred]
#1649264
07/22/14 02:17 AM
07/22/14 02:17 AM
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Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Then you need to make better baffles.. also where are they located... during testing on the dyno I seen that if your over the front wide rocker stand you get the least amount of oil there EDIT also is it coming out between the rubber and the VC or between the rubber and the breather
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 07/22/14 02:19 AM.
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1649267
07/22/14 04:25 AM
07/22/14 04:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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MoparBilly
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Hit the darn thing with nitrous! That will clear it right up! If it doesn't, step up the jets until it does!
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1649268
07/22/14 11:03 AM
07/22/14 11:03 AM
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Hit the darn thing with nitrous! That will clear it right up! If it doesn't, step up the jets until it does!
Is this sarcasm? LOL...I only ask because I have a friend who says the same thing, and he isn't kidding...he is a nitrous guy and says that all the nitrous motors he and others build don't seal the rings properly until you give them a nice hit of spray like they were meant to take...then everything on motor is better too...Not sure if there is any truth to that
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1649269
07/22/14 11:05 AM
07/22/14 11:05 AM
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Then you need to make better baffles.. also where are they located... during testing on the dyno I seen that if your over the front wide rocker stand you get the least amount of oil there EDIT also is it coming out between the rubber and the VC or between the rubber and the breather
The oil is coming out between the rubber and the breather. I am going to pull the valve covers off today to check where the baffle is over, but I seem to remember it being over a shaft pedestal in the heads. The valve covers are the cheap fabbed type you can get from a variety of sellers on ebay.
I was thinking of drilling a hole into the valve covers to run lines to a puke tank, but not sure if that would need to be baffled either or if its a good place for it.
When using open breathers or a puke tank that breathes, is it helping to vent crankcase pressure?
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: Mopar-Al]
#1649270
07/22/14 11:06 AM
07/22/14 11:06 AM
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You should consider screw down breathers, rather than push in. They will clear the baffle for one and are more efficent as far as not being able to push out. Some racers around here run a hose from both valve covers, tee into 1 line and end up on the fire wall into a puke tank that is vented. Myself, I just run 2 breathers on the covers to the check valves in the headers. No full exhaust but never an issue. I have never re-used old rings, that's just me I guess. You should consider maybe a taller valve cover and both breathers in front. But as you said, it worked good last year for you.
Who makes the screw in breathers? And how would I thread the valve covers for them?
I re-used the rings since they cylinders looked really good and the rings did NOT have a lot of mileage on them. My current valve covers are already pretty tall. I am thinking of adding a line to the front of each going to a puke tank.
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1649271
07/22/14 11:08 AM
07/22/14 11:08 AM
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I trimmed the breathers down a bit for baffle clearance and siliconed em in solid to the valve covers so when I check/set lash, I hit em w/brake clean, blow em dry and back in business............
Friend threw this out to me as well, said to silicone the breather into the grommet with a little bit of the right stuff for now. I think I might try it till I get the parts to do the puke tank setup.
I realize that this whole problem could be a sign of excess pressure, but so far I don't have any seals being pushed or leaks created, so I imagine my excess pressure was the evac setup creating positive pressure in the crank case, and now that I got rid of that, I should be ok.
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: mshred]
#1649272
07/22/14 12:13 PM
07/22/14 12:13 PM
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First, what ever you push in to the valve covers can't be touching the baffles. Gotta correct that first. Second, if you are racing with a full exhaust ( like you street drive it), the exhaust evac system won't work. Any back pressure on the evac tubes will close off the valves and shut the system off. If you are running a pcv, the crankcase ( other valve cover ) has to be vented to the atmosphere. Having a pcv on one valve cover and an exhaust evac on the other won't work as there will be no vent to the atmosphere that way. Keep in mind all these scenerios can change a little bit based on exhaust back pressure and how much engine blow-by you have. Example: When I test on the street, I run a very minimal back pressure exhaust system. With my exhaust evac system hooked up ( both sides ) I can still pull a small amount of vacuum at idle and up to about 2K ( around 3" of water ). Somewhere around 2500rpm the exhaust back pressure is enough to close off the valves and the crankcase goes to pressure. If I wind it up, it will be enough pressure to blow out a breather so the crankcase can vent. So, if you are running a full exhaust ( quiet enough to be legal ), exhaust evacs won't work. They will work great if you run open headers at the track. If you don't want to play switcharu between the street and the track, just run 2 breathers and vent them to the atmosphere - after you fix the breather to baffle problem. Be prepared to wipe down your fire wall on a regular interval.
I agree with you about the breathers touching the valve cover baffles not being right....Not sure if I should just cut the breather nipple that goes in to the valve cover, or modify the valve cover baffles in some fashion.
I don't think my issue was the valve closing from backpressure- if it was, how was oil getting past the check valve and burning out the passenger side tail pipe where I had the evac tube? Also, my evac hose had quite a lot of oil in it.
I figured that with the pcv hooked up that the other breather going to the evac would be like venting to the atmosphere...I guess I was wrong lol...and when I put a breather in the driver side valve cover, I have the same issue of seeping just not as bad as the passenger side.
I run a full exhaust at the track as I do on the street, with bullet mufflers, and I plan to continue to run it that way as my class requires mufflers.
Thanks for the insight and suggestions so far! I will try to modify my breathers first and see what happens.
Yes, you can cut back the breather nipples 1/8" or there abouts and still have enough "bump" to hold them in. I did that for clearance on my baffles. If you are running a full exhaust, dump the exhaust evac system. It aint gonna work. It sounds like you have excessive blow-by. I run lots of ring clearance on my blown application, but don't have oil in my exhaust evac hoses? It might be time to do a compression test and leak down test to get an idea of engine health. How do the plugs look? Got oil consumption issues? If you are not running a locking dip stick, does it stay in the tube when you make a run. All signs of excessive blow-by. You could hook up your pcv system and, at idle, you should have a slight vacuum ( negative pressure ) in the crankcase. If it's positive, you got excessive blow-by.
I tried "shorter" breathers tonight, and there was a difference. I think they are still pretty close to touching, but they fit snugger then my Moroso breathers (they are the breathers that came with my Summit pan evac kit I ran with last years headers). I am going to chop some off with a saw tomorrow and see if it helps. But what I did notice is that it is now just lightly wet on the valve cover, not wet enough to drip down on to the header, after I shut the car off from a drive and pop the hood.
I honestly think my problem with the oil in the evac is from the evac possibly not working properly with the exhaust. It was only with the evac that the breather was actually being pushed up, indicating to me that it must have been creating positive pressure in the crankcase. Maybe there was some sort of reversion that caused oil to build up some in the line and burn out the exhaust. I say it was wet with oil, but I don't know how much oil is needed to burn out the exhaust for smoke- there was no oil consumption from it at the track this weekend on the one pass that it happened. The oil dipstick does not get pushed out either, and it is not a locking one.
I did a compression test, all cylinders are within 5psi of eachother. Thinking of doing a leakdown, but I don't think my rings are bad. My plugs do not have oil on them either. I think ditching the pan evac was a step in the right direction....maybe a puke tank next, and a leakdown test if I can get one...Although a friend made a good point to me- if the compression test checked out good and the cylinders were all almost dead nuts even, a leakdown isn't going to show a leak unless they are ALL leaking (and it would be funny if they were all leaking the same).
Maybe I should take a picture of the valve covers dry and then wet after driving- I have a friend who had the same problem with a boosted motor, and he INSISTS I am worrying too much about it. His problem went almost entirely away after ditching the pan evac that he was running with his full exhaust, and now he just runs a catch can with a nipple threaded into the valve cover and has been good since.
If the engine checks out ok and you have removed the evac system - and you still have oil coming out of the breathers, the valve cover baffles are not doing their jobs. You should not have to run a catch can or screw in breathers with your set up. If you have an extra hole you are not using in one of your valve covers, consider installing a test port (pic). then you can actually measure crankcase pressure while you try different stuff.
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1649274
07/22/14 07:56 PM
07/22/14 07:56 PM
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I was examining the breathers today...it looks like the cheap crimped on design is actually allowing oil to leak past. So I cut the nipple that goes in to the V/C shorter, and put some right stuff (not pretty, but will tell me what is leaking) around the crimped area on the breathers. Going to drive it and see if it still leaks some there. I also now have some oil seeping from the front oil pan seal Unfortunately my valve covers only have one hole in them, and they are baffled, so I am not sure how they aren't doing their job? Is the fuel pump block off plate a good area to measure vacuum from? I tried looking for SBM valve covers that have no holes in them so I can make my own, but I can't find any
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: mshred]
#1649275
07/22/14 10:47 PM
07/22/14 10:47 PM
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Quote:
I was examining the breathers today...it looks like the cheap crimped on design is actually allowing oil to leak past. So I cut the nipple that goes in to the V/C shorter, and put some right stuff (not pretty, but will tell me what is leaking) around the crimped area on the breathers. Going to drive it and see if it still leaks some there. I also now have some oil seeping from the front oil pan seal
Unfortunately my valve covers only have one hole in them, and they are baffled, so I am not sure how they aren't doing their job? Is the fuel pump block off plate a good area to measure vacuum from?
I tried looking for SBM valve covers that have no holes in them so I can make my own, but I can't find any
Yes, you can use the FP block off plate, but a better choice would be the dip stick tube. If you had oil in the evac hoses, don't think sealing the breathers is your MAIN problem?
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: mshred]
#1649277
07/22/14 11:47 PM
07/22/14 11:47 PM
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Definitely cut and get the breather nipples off the baffles.
Your evac hose is already Off/disconnected at the header and muffler system, so that is not Back pressurizing it.
Forget about hooking up a vaccum test port at the fuel pump block off plate. You dont have any vacuum. You have positive pressure. The leaks may be helped or stopped by sealing the breathers and reducing the nipple length to get them off the baffle plates.
Start there, if you still have to much positive pressure, oil will come out of the filters on the breathers. Then, you have Bigger problems, loss of ring seal or leaking head gasket.
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Re: Pushing breathers out, oil seeping past
[Re: Sport440]
#1649278
07/23/14 12:15 AM
07/23/14 12:15 AM
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MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Definitely cut and get the breather nipples off the baffles.
Your evac hose is already Off/disconnected at the header and muffler system, so that is not Back pressurizing it.
Forget about hooking up a vaccum test port at the fuel pump block off plate. You dont have any vacuum. You have positive pressure. The leaks may be helped or stopped by sealing the breathers and reducing the nipple length to get them off the baffle plates.
Start there, if you still have to much positive pressure, oil will come out of the filters on the breathers. Then, you have Bigger problems, loss of ring seal or leaking head gasket.
He can measure how much pressure is there if he used the vac port (anywhere in the crank case system) I had a port in the back of the valve cover to monitor my vac.. he can use a compound gauge or a balance tube
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