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Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting #1648689 07/20/14 01:33 PM 07/20/14 01:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio Crazy68Dart OP pro stock
Crazy68Dart OP pro stock Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio	The Dart was running about a month ago. Been doing some things in the interior, headliner, trim, etc. Went to start, and nothing. Nothing changed, so puzzled I started trouble shooting. Dizzy is mag trigger Accel, with older 6AL and Blaster 2. Tested ignition by placing coil wire near ground and triggering with jumper wire. Hot blue spark. Then took timing light and made sure plug is firing during cranking, it is. Looking at carb, not much of a pump shot when hitting the throttle. Remove sight plug, front bowl is empty. Remove secondary tight plug, there is some fuel in there. Carb is Holley 750 DP. What should I expect in terms of fuel in the bowl? Does it evaporate quickly? Since there was still fuel in secondary bowl, makes me think needle/seat is seeping in primary? I am using a mechanical fuel pump. Prior, car started easy, barely have to hit the starter, but this is after fuel/etc. was pulled up to the carb. Appears I have a fuel delivery issue now. Thanks. 383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648690 07/20/14 01:45 PM 07/20/14 01:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	I'd fill the pri bowl via the bowl vent till it dribbles out the site plug then let er rip live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: RapidRobert] #1648691 07/20/14 01:59 PM 07/20/14 01:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio Crazy68Dart OP pro stock
Crazy68Dart OP pro stock Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio	Quote: I'd fill the pri bowl via the bowl vent till it dribbles out the site plug then let er rip That is the plan... however I don't want to have to do that every time the car sits a month. Should I pull the carb and let it sit on the bench and watch for leaks? 383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648692 07/20/14 02:27 PM 07/20/14 02:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 super stock
dd340 super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Quote: Quote: I'd fill the pri bowl via the bowl vent till it dribbles out the site plug then let er rip That is the plan... however I don't want to have to do that every time the car sits a month. Should I pull the carb and let it sit on the bench and watch for leaks? Carter and edelbrock carbs are notorious for this, but I think holleys are much better. You could run an electric fuel pump. Last edited by dd340; 07/20/14 02:28 PM.

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: dd340] #1648693 07/20/14 02:32 PM 07/20/14 02:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio Crazy68Dart OP pro stock
Crazy68Dart OP pro stock Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio	Quote: Quote: Quote: I'd fill the pri bowl via the bowl vent till it dribbles out the site plug then let er rip That is the plan... however I don't want to have to do that every time the car sits a month. Should I pull the carb and let it sit on the bench and watch for leaks? Carter and edelbrock carbs are notorious for this, but I think holleys are much better. You could run an electric fuel pump. I don't think it is pump related. Rear bowl had fuel, front bowl did not. I have not noticed any external leaks, so I am assuming it was leaking inside the intake. If it was an evaporation issue, I would think that the rear bowl would be empty too after this period of time? Been reading that a pinhole in pump diaphragm or damaged power valve can cause this (possibly)? 383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648694 07/20/14 02:58 PM 07/20/14 02:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,681 A Andrewh master
Andrewh master A Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,681	I don't think I can ever remember being able to start a car after sitting a month without cranking a bit first to get fuel back up to the carb. factory or holley. next day sure, maybe even a bit later in the week, but not much after that. have you been able to start it sitting like that before? you might be chasing nothing is what I am saying. if you never did it before, it might be normal. if you can't do it tomorrow, then I might dig a little.

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Andrewh] #1648695 07/20/14 04:52 PM 07/20/14 04:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio	I would look into the front power valve and gasket just for any fuel residue on the vacuum side of the PV. That being said my PV and gasket are in good shape but my bowls will go dry after a month of inactivity. Your 750 may not have a power valve in the secondary bowl so you may have an issue. I would change the valve and replace the gaskets with a set from Superformance because they don't leak or wick fuel. Gus 8214457-rearviewsavoy.jpg (30 downloads) 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648696 07/20/14 05:06 PM 07/20/14 05:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: I'd fill the pri bowl via the bowl vent till it dribbles out the site plug then let er rip That is the plan... however I don't want to have to do that every time the car sits a month. Should I pull the carb and let it sit on the bench and watch for leaks? Carter and edelbrock carbs are notorious for this, but I think holleys are much better. You could run an electric fuel pump. I don't think it is pump related. Rear bowl had fuel, front bowl did not. I have not noticed any external leaks, so I am assuming it was leaking inside the intake. If it was an evaporation issue, I would think that the rear bowl would be empty too after this period of time? Been reading that a pinhole in pump diaphragm or damaged power valve can cause this (possibly)? the electric pump was suggested because you wouldn't have to crank and crank to fill the bowls after sitting. just flip a switch. but there are issues with electric pumps too but mostly noise and pressure. I would just accept the fact you're going to have to crank it a few 'extra' times after sitting for a long while.

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: mikemee1331] #1648697 07/20/14 06:27 PM 07/20/14 06:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio Crazy68Dart OP pro stock
Crazy68Dart OP pro stock Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio	Mike, thanks. Yeah, I understand the electric pump suggestion thinking about it some more. Maybe a "prime pump" to get it going and then let it run on the mechanical. Gus, yeah, no PV in the secondary on this carb. I'll likely pull the primary side apart. I don't really want it leaking fuel into the engine if that is really what is happening. I am using the blue gaskets, and see no indication of leaks externally. Either way, I got it running. Filled the bowl and it lit right off. While I was looking at the electrical/ignition side of things the secondary side of the MSD Blaster 2 is showing almost 11 K Ohms of resistance. MSD says it should be approx 4.6 K. Primary side is close to spec at .9 versus the .7 spec. Just wanted to run this past you guys. Coil is firing so I am going to leave well enough alone. 383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648698 07/20/14 06:51 PM 07/20/14 06:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,253 Slidell, LA Ronnman pro stock
Ronnman pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,253 Slidell, LA	2 weeks max without having to prime the bowl with today's fast evaporating fuels. I run a speed demon carb today, but was like that with the holley I had on it as well. Both had/ have no leaks. Ron

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648699 07/20/14 06:55 PM 07/20/14 06:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	Quote: Coil is firing so I am going to leave well enough alone.

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Ronnman] #1648700 07/20/14 07:48 PM 07/20/14 07:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio Crazy68Dart OP pro stock
Crazy68Dart OP pro stock Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio	Quote: 2 weeks max without having to prime the bowl with today's fast evaporating fuels. I run a speed demon carb today, but was like that with the holley I had on it as well. Both had/ have no leaks. Ron Pretty amazing. I think I am going to do a test and leave some fuel in a small container in my lawn mower shed and check on it every day. I'm just curious now how quickly it evaporates. What bugs me is the secondary fuel bowl still had fuel in it that is why I am thinking it is not all evaporation, but possibly a small leak too. Dunno. 383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648701 07/20/14 09:35 PM 07/20/14 09:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: What bugs me is the secondary fuel bowl still had fuel in it that is why I am thinking it is not all evaporation, but possibly a small leak too. Dunno. I'm with you there & if there is a leak/bad gasket you definitely need to discover it so you can take care of it. As far as the evap todays gas will dissappear easily in a month but with both bowls being vented the same (I believe/not a Holley guy) then they should both be acting the same or pretty close & that ain't the case here with 1 full and 1 empty. Just me I'd k.i.s.s. and replace the gaskets on the empty side & see what develops. Holler how it goes live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: RapidRobert] #1648702 07/21/14 02:55 AM 07/21/14 02:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,100 Rogue River, OR Jeremiah master
Jeremiah master Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,100 Rogue River, OR	The biggest problem I have with pump gas is percolation. If I drive any car we own with straight Oregon pump swill it will boil out of the carb once the car sits and heat soaks. Non-ethanol makes no difference. Blocking off the heat riser helps some, but the problem still exists. If I fill any of these cars with a 25% 110 octane race fuel mix the problem goes away. I figured this out because my high compression race gas only car will always start right up no matter how hot it gets (within reason). Also if the float is too low the fuel may have a tendency to percolate. This may not be your issue but I have been fighting it ever since I moved out West.

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Jeremiah] #1648703 07/21/14 11:07 PM 07/21/14 11:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio Crazy68Dart OP pro stock
Crazy68Dart OP pro stock Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio	Well, about 27 hours between the photos. Started with 60 milliliters and am sitting at 25 right now. Granted, this is a completely open container and was in my shed with the mowers which was likely 85-90 degrees today. However, I can see this being accelerated dramatically when an engine heat soaks. 8215779-IMG_20140720_181424.jpg (48 downloads) 383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648704 07/21/14 11:07 PM 07/21/14 11:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio Crazy68Dart OP pro stock
Crazy68Dart OP pro stock Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio	2 8215780-IMG_20140721_204318.jpg (57 downloads) 383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648705 07/21/14 11:27 PM 07/21/14 11:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	nice dramatization. now you can see why the feds mandated NON-venting fuel systems.

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: mikemee1331] #1648706 07/22/14 01:24 PM 07/22/14 01:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2012 Posts: 180 3rd rock K kloyiod
kloyiod K Joined: Sep 2012 Posts: 180 3rd rock	As said, it's the problem with todays gas, after about 4 days you start running into this starting problem. You only have 3 choices in this matter to fix it. 1. Do nothing and live it while having to crank and pump the pedal till it fires. 2.Get yourself a screw cap type ketchup bottle with some gas in it and give the carb a squirt in both barrels before cranking to give it a shot for quicker starting. What I'm currently doing now on one vehicle till I do #3. 3. Install a electric fuel pump that switched. Before starting the car let the pump run for about a minute to re-prime & pressurize the system for quicker starting. Which I've done to another vehicle and starts fine! Deal with the problem, or fix it!

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Crazy68Dart] #1648707 07/22/14 09:07 PM 07/22/14 09:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,253 Slidell, LA Ronnman pro stock
Ronnman pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,253 Slidell, LA	WOW! That comes as a big surprise to me. I would have never believed the evaporation was that great. How in the world my car starts after sitting a week is baffling. Ron

Re: Won't start after a month - Troubleshooting [Re: Ronnman] #1648708 07/22/14 10:50 PM 07/22/14 10:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio Crazy68Dart OP pro stock
Crazy68Dart OP pro stock Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,212 Canton, Ohio	So now 24 hours later.. down to 20 ML. The evaporation has certainly slowed down a lot, and it was hotter today than yesterday. 383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60

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