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I seemed to have touched a nerve somewhere....


So if a person were to go the cheppy TH400 route, how does the starter mount and does it have to shimmed?

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It's not so much about the "cheapy" TH400 route.

You still need good internals, but there a numerous advantages, including the choice of aftermarket cases, converter choices, as well as a possible cost advantage all things being equal and the starter is a non-issue with the correct bell.

If you were building a 1000+hp N/A project, looking for the last bit of ET, I'd wager many of the people here recommending 400s would be steering you towards a Proflite (including me), but in your application, the 400/2.10 is tough to beat for all the reasons stated.

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I seemed to have touched a nerve somewhere....


So if a person were to go the cheppy TH400 route, how does the starter mount and does it have to shimmed?

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It's not so much about the "cheapy" TH400 route.

You still need good internals, but there a numerous advantages, including the choice of aftermarket cases, converter choices, as well as a possible cost advantage all things being equal and the starter is a non-issue with the correct bell.

If you were building a 1000+hp N/A project, looking for the last bit of ET, I'd wager many of the people here recommending 400s would be steering you towards a Proflite (including me), but in your application, the 400/2.10 is tough to beat for all the reasons stated.

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I wasn't sure if "cheppy" was supposed to be like "chebby" or "cheapy"........that was a new vernacular for me.......LOL!!........If he was meaning "cheap" then NO, a 400 for 1500+ hp won't be cheap.........BUT, it will be WAY cheaper than the 727 prepped for the same power level.

Monte

Monte

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Ya know....after reading it again, you make a good point.

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TH400's fail too.

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With the popularity of diesel trucks and the power they can make there are now many, many high strength billet shafts and parts for the 47rh/re and/48re transmissions. Many of these parts can be installed in a 727. If they can handle over 1000 lb/ft from these diesels in a 3 ton+ truck I can't see why they couldn't handle a 1000 hp gas engine in a car.

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With the popularity of diesel trucks and the power they can make there are now many, many high strength billet shafts and parts for the 47rh/re and/48re transmissions. Many of these parts can be installed in a 727. If they can handle over 1000 lb/ft from these diesels in a 3 ton+ truck I can't see why they couldn't handle a 1000 hp gas engine in a car.

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Sure, probably. Given enough time and money, you can likely MAKE anything work, but the question is WHY? I personally would have no desire to be the "test bed" for any type experimental trans, for the sole purpose of claiming I had a Mopar trans in my Mopar. Why people care about that is beyond me. I would rather race than be a guinea pig and there is a multitude of places you can call and have a trans that will do the job in a couple days............Plus, even if you DO manage to make the trans live, that still doesn't address the fact that no decent converter cores needed for that type power even fit in the Mopar cases.....and oh yeah, the CASE. You will still be stuck with a stock case

Monte

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With that logic why even run a Mopar to start with? If it's just about racing we should all have turbo small block Fords or nitrous big block Chevies. There are so many of them out there which is why there are those parts available.

Me personally it's not about being a follow the crowd kind of thing. I like to be a little different. When I first built my Duster back in 1990 everyone told me I couldn't build a ten second 340 street car, so I had to do it just to prove to myself I could. It was expensive, time consuming and had a very steep learning curve but I did it and I'm glad I did. Of course now there are a lot more parts available to accomplish that rather easily.

I'm not knocking you Monty, you're a smart guy and I'm sure we all appreciate your input. I realize where your perspective comes from but for some of us it's not all about doing it the way everyone else does it.

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With the popularity of diesel trucks and the power they can make there are now many, many high strength billet shafts and parts for the 47rh/re and/48re transmissions. Many of these parts can be installed in a 727. If they can handle over 1000 lb/ft from these diesels in a 3 ton+ truck I can't see why they couldn't handle a 1000 hp gas engine in a car.

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Sure, probably. Given enough time and money, you can likely MAKE anything work, but the question is WHY? I personally would have no desire to be the "test bed" for any type experimental trans, for the sole purpose of claiming I had a Mopar trans in my Mopar. Why people care about that is beyond me. I would rather race than be a guinea pig and there is a multitude of places you can call and have a trans that will do the job in a couple days............Plus, even if you DO manage to make the trans live, that still doesn't address the fact that no decent converter cores needed for that type power even fit in the Mopar cases.....and oh yeah, the CASE. You will still be stuck with a stock case

Monte

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With that logic why even run a Mopar to start with? If it's just about racing we should all have turbo small block Fords or nitrous big block Chevies. There are so many of them out there which is why there are those parts available.
I'm not knocking you Monty, you're a smart guy and I'm sure we all appreciate your input. I realize where your perspective comes from but for some of us it's not all about doing it the way everyone else does it.

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I'm no one with nothing fast. But yeah.

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i Believe listening to some of the advice in this thread could help his body stay in one piece.
727´s and to much power has a nasty habbit of destroying feets and legs.

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TH400's fail too.

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Anything can fail........but here is the thing. The 727 is NOT the go to 3 speed for high HP applications. If it WAS, there would be a multitude of aftermarket parts and those type trans would be common. Neither scenario is the reality. What you DO see very commonly is the Turbo 400. You see them everyday behind very high HP blown, nitrous and turbo cars. We have one that we put over 2000hp through on a weekly basis and have never had the first problem out of it. It is expensive?......you bet your a$$. We have over 10k in ours counting the converter, but it is as close to bullet proof as a trans can be. Also, LOTS of companies make these parts and they are easy to find. While there appears to be ONE person that does these type trans mods to the 727 and from posts here and on other sites.......getting hold of that company, or getting them to do anything seems to be a crap shoot. That simple fact would push me toward the more mainstream solution.

Lets also not forget the converter situation. Commonly known that the converter distance in a 727 is NOT ideal. It is too short to be able to use the needed cores for these type power levels. So you are left with a compromise converter, spacing the trans back, or a custom bell. Just another reason to go with the 400. In an application such as this.....DO YOUR HOMEWORK and if nobody else is using the 727 setup, there is a reason

Monte

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How about an overdrive trans. that could handle that kind of HP? GM or otherwise.

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Whats funny is in the CAR drag racing world the TH400 is the go to trans but in the Diesel drag racing world the 47RH is. The fastest Duramax full bodied 4x4 truck I know at least at one time ran a 47RH. I've been out of the loop for a while though. Monte you say you have 10K in a 400? I'd at least try a 7K 47RH behind a 1000hp gasser if I was at THAT level.

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I went with the Bruno/Lenco combo. Cheeper and I always wanted a car with a Lenco

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Can't blame you for that. I'd love to have a Lenco in my car but with the 3rd pedal.

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With the popularity of diesel trucks and the power they can make there are now many, many high strength billet shafts and parts for the 47rh/re and/48re transmissions. Many of these parts can be installed in a 727. If they can handle over 1000 lb/ft from these diesels in a 3 ton+ truck I can't see why they couldn't handle a 1000 hp gas engine in a car.

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Sure, probably. Given enough time and money, you can likely MAKE anything work, but the question is WHY? I personally would have no desire to be the "test bed" for any type experimental trans, for the sole purpose of claiming I had a Mopar trans in my Mopar. Why people care about that is beyond me. I would rather race than be a guinea pig and there is a multitude of places you can call and have a trans that will do the job in a couple days............Plus, even if you DO manage to make the trans live, that still doesn't address the fact that no decent converter cores needed for that type power even fit in the Mopar cases.....and oh yeah, the CASE. You will still be stuck with a stock case

Monte

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With that logic why even run a Mopar to start with? If it's just about racing we should all have turbo small block Fords or nitrous big block Chevies. There are so many of them out there which is why there are those parts available.

Me personally it's not about being a follow the crowd kind of thing. I like to be a little different. When I first built my Duster back in 1990 everyone told me I couldn't build a ten second 340 street car, so I had to do it just to prove to myself I could. It was expensive, time consuming and had a very steep learning curve but I did it and I'm glad I did. Of course now there are a lot more parts available to accomplish that rather easily.

I'm not knocking you Monty, you're a smart guy and I'm sure we all appreciate your input. I realize where your perspective comes from but for some of us it's not all about doing it the way everyone else does it.

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With the popularity of diesel trucks and the power they can make there are now many, many high strength billet shafts and parts for the 47rh/re and/48re transmissions. Many of these parts can be installed in a 727. If they can handle over 1000 lb/ft from these diesels in a 3 ton+ truck I can't see why they couldn't handle a 1000 hp gas engine in a car.

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Sure, probably. Given enough time and money, you can likely MAKE anything work, but the question is WHY? I personally would have no desire to be the "test bed" for any type experimental trans, for the sole purpose of claiming I had a Mopar trans in my Mopar. Why people care about that is beyond me. I would rather race than be a guinea pig and there is a multitude of places you can call and have a trans that will do the job in a couple days............Plus, even if you DO manage to make the trans live, that still doesn't address the fact that no decent converter cores needed for that type power even fit in the Mopar cases.....and oh yeah, the CASE. You will still be stuck with a stock case

Monte

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With that logic why even run a Mopar to start with? If it's just about racing we should all have turbo small block Fords or nitrous big block Chevies. There are so many of them out there which is why there are those parts available.

Me personally it's not about being a follow the crowd kind of thing. I like to be a little different. When I first built my Duster back in 1990 everyone told me I couldn't build a ten second 340 street car, so I had to do it just to prove to myself I could. It was expensive, time consuming and had a very steep learning curve but I did it and I'm glad I did. Of course now there are a lot more parts available to accomplish that rather easily.

I'm not knocking you Monty, you're a smart guy and I'm sure we all appreciate your input. I realize where your perspective comes from but for some of us it's not all about doing it the way everyone else does it.

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Lets swing this around then..........with YOUR logic. Do you use aftermarket parts on your ALL Mopar car. If you do WHY?........answer is simple........because they are BETTER than factory parts.

Lets look at another example. Tube chassis, fiberglass bodied Daytona. KB alum block, B-1 heads, Lenco trans, aftermarket Dana. Is THIS car a Mopar, if so why? It does not have the FIRST part on it that was ever offered on a factory Mopar. And the only thing even CLOSE to being Mopar engineered is the general make up of the block and general shape of the body......... What about a current Pro-Stock Dodge. A body never offered and an engine platform NEVER available, yet we are all proud to waive the Mopar banner about it..........why?.........because it has a Mopar sticker on it?.........so the point is, to consider something LESS of a Mopar, because it doesn't have a factory based trans in it is just crazy.

As far as the trans argument. Show me the diesel pickup that will 60ft in the sub 1.0 range. I mean a bull dozer will take all the torque in the world, but can you make it move quick......NO. And how much does one of those truck trannies weigh? I don't think I want that in my lightweight race car

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With the popularity of diesel trucks and the power they can make there are now many, many high strength billet shafts and parts for the 47rh/re and/48re transmissions. Many of these parts can be installed in a 727. If they can handle over 1000 lb/ft from these diesels in a 3 ton+ truck I can't see why they couldn't handle a 1000 hp gas engine in a car.

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Sure, probably. Given enough time and money, you can likely MAKE anything work, but the question is WHY? I personally would have no desire to be the "test bed" for any type experimental trans, for the sole purpose of claiming I had a Mopar trans in my Mopar. Why people care about that is beyond me. I would rather race than be a guinea pig and there is a multitude of places you can call and have a trans that will do the job in a couple days............Plus, even if you DO manage to make the trans live, that still doesn't address the fact that no decent converter cores needed for that type power even fit in the Mopar cases.....and oh yeah, the CASE. You will still be stuck with a stock case

Monte

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With that logic why even run a Mopar to start with? If it's just about racing we should all have turbo small block Fords or nitrous big block Chevies. There are so many of them out there which is why there are those parts available.

Me personally it's not about being a follow the crowd kind of thing. I like to be a little different. When I first built my Duster back in 1990 everyone told me I couldn't build a ten second 340 street car, so I had to do it just to prove to myself I could. It was expensive, time consuming and had a very steep learning curve but I did it and I'm glad I did. Of course now there are a lot more parts available to accomplish that rather easily.

I'm not knocking you Monty, you're a smart guy and I'm sure we all appreciate your input. I realize where your perspective comes from but for some of us it's not all about doing it the way everyone else does it.

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Lets swing this around then..........with YOUR logic. Do you use aftermarket parts on your ALL Mopar car. If you do WHY?........answer is simple........because they are BETTER than factory parts.

Lets look at another example. Tube chassis, fiberglass bodied Daytona. KB alum block, B-1 heads, Lenco trans, aftermarket Dana. Is THIS car a Mopar, if so why? It does not have the FIRST part on it that was ever offered on a factory Mopar. And the only thing even CLOSE to being Mopar engineered is the general make up of the block and general shape of the body......... What about a current Pro-Stock Dodge. A body never offered and an engine platform NEVER available, yet we are all proud to waive the Mopar banner about it..........why?.........because it has a Mopar sticker on it?.........so the point is, to consider something LESS of a Mopar, because it doesn't have a factory based trans in it is just crazy.

As far as the trans argument. Show me the diesel pickup that will 60ft in the sub 1.0 range. I mean a bull dozer will take all the torque in the world, but can you make it move quick......NO. And how much does one of those truck trannies weigh? I don't think I want that in my lightweight race car

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I never said it was less of a Mopar because of the trans or diff that was in it................ I know Turbo 400's aren't light either.

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what a train wreck of a thread

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