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Borgeson / Pitman & Fitment Issue (UPDATED 22 May 2014) #1613679
04/29/14 06:52 PM
04/29/14 06:52 PM
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Hey folks,
I know we had this pretty well buried in another thread, so I figured it would make sense to have it's own thread. I test fit one large and one small sector Borgeson box with a variety of pitmans arms and it seems that the small sector boxes have the fitment issues. I have another Pitman coming from another manufacturer tomorrow and it will be the last of these I try. So for it seems the large boxes don't have any issues, and plenty of thread engagement.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613680
04/29/14 08:46 PM
04/29/14 08:46 PM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Hey dan, the problems we have seen have been the opposite, good with small - just barely with the large sector, although according to them there is enough thread engagement. Im now wondering if its a quality control issue on their part

Last edited by dangina; 04/29/14 08:47 PM.
Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613681
04/29/14 09:20 PM
04/29/14 09:20 PM
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Quote:

Hey dan, the problems we have seen have been the opposite, good with small - just barely with the large sector, although according to them there is enough thread engagement. Im now wondering if its a quality control issue on their part




If you do the facebook thing, here is a picture of a large sector with a factory replacement Pitman. Engagement was good, plenty of thread protrusion.

https://www.facebook.com/305030966187707...mp;notif_t=like

The small I just tested today with a Q/R Pitman had terrible engagement. Seems like the sector is too big or the taper is off.
I'll host pictures tomorrow once I finish checking the last arm.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613682
04/29/14 09:43 PM
04/29/14 09:43 PM
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Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
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Quote:

Hey dan, the problems we have seen have been the opposite, good with small - just barely with the large sector, although according to them there is enough thread engagement. Im now wondering if its a quality control issue on their part




That's how I understood it too?

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: brads70] #1613683
04/29/14 11:01 PM
04/29/14 11:01 PM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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in the pick with the big sector, how many threads are showing when you get your 170lbs of torque? I got just about flush with the fast ratio, and slightly worse with the stock moog arm

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613684
04/29/14 11:44 PM
04/29/14 11:44 PM
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Nebraska
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You guys need to measure the thread length and the splined length and maybe figure out where the issue is for Borgeson. Could be the splined part is GTG and the threads are to short or the splined shaft is to big etc, etc,.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613685
04/30/14 12:26 PM
04/30/14 12:26 PM
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Quote:

in the pick with the big sector, how many threads are showing when you get your 170lbs of torque? I got just about flush with the fast ratio, and slightly worse with the stock moog arm




I didn't want to torque it down since we are returning it. The pictures shown is with the nut hand tightened and the threaded portion is flush with the nut. There is full spline engagement.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613686
04/30/14 03:45 PM
04/30/14 03:45 PM
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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New stuff in, more bad news...

So this is the box full right turn...


And this is the box full left...


I figured, maybe flipping the drag link may help....
And it's worse....


Back the way it should be and "centered"

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613687
04/30/14 04:57 PM
04/30/14 04:57 PM
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Good news,
Just spoke with Borgeson about the box, seems the center was so tight we weren't getting all the way through in the other direction and the box can steer past the steering stops. Sweep is good. I'll re-torque the Q/R pit man and the Moog and post pictures as well.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613688
04/30/14 05:32 PM
04/30/14 05:32 PM
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Nebraska
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Good luck with that 67 idler. You must have more faith than I would. Your first picture looks the most "centered" out of all of them.

Last edited by 72Swinger; 04/30/14 05:35 PM.

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Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613689
04/30/14 09:27 PM
04/30/14 09:27 PM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

in the pick with the big sector, how many threads are showing when you get your 170lbs of torque? I got just about flush with the fast ratio, and slightly worse with the stock moog arm




I didn't want to torque it down since we are returning it. The pictures shown is with the nut hand tightened and the threaded portion is flush with the nut. There is full spline engagement.




Hmmm weird that they just said mine was fine and shrugged it off when your clearly getting better thread engagement. I still think its a quality control issue that needs to be addressed if everyone is getting different results with different arms. Im just so sick of pulling it off and on again and to ship it back to the states where they might take awhile with it and do nothing, I think ill just leave it the way it is for now and pull it out this winter. Summer is too close and I wanna drive the damn car

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613690
04/30/14 09:53 PM
04/30/14 09:53 PM
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Torqued small sector with our Q/R arms. Last thread of nut isn't engaged.




Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613691
04/30/14 10:37 PM
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Some measurements of my small sector
length of threads: .97"
diameter or splines at big end: 1.12"
diameter of splines at small end: 1.05"
length of splines: .978"


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Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: 72Swinger] #1613692
05/01/14 02:44 AM
05/01/14 02:44 AM
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Here's a small sector box that was put in last week. Was delivered two weeks or less ago.

Pitman was a new 68-72 A-body regular power steering arm. Don't know the exact brand.

I did not measure the thickness of the pitman. I might be able to get back there and measure.

8130054-IMG_4915.JPG (355 downloads)
Last edited by autoxcuda; 05/01/14 02:47 AM.

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Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613693
05/01/14 03:38 AM
05/01/14 03:38 AM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Quote:

Torqued small sector with our Q/R arms. Last thread of nut isn't engaged.








thats the way mine looks but large sector:



which according boregson says its fine. Have you talked to them about this? I wonder if you'll get the same answer

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613694
05/01/14 10:41 PM
05/01/14 10:41 PM
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sandwich IL
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ok guys...i will give you my experience...i was one of the of the first to buy a box...small sector..and i bought pro forged pitman non fast ratio..for my 70 charger..i bought moog pitman so i can do roller bearing mod..just ordered today by the way..but i mocked as is...any way i have many threads showing on engagement...my center link sits so level...if it was sitting flush like yours...my centerlink would be cocked one way...i would post pics but my set up is at shop right now...i will post some pics soon...hope this helps


70 charger ,all aluminum 528 hemi 727 cope rmvb,680hp 670 tq,full sequential holley hp efi,full hotchkis tvs,qa1 k and lowers,borgeson steering box cass viper 11.75 with cass s-trac dana 3.54
Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613695
05/06/14 11:02 AM
05/06/14 11:02 AM
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Also worth noting, Dougs headers required a bit of massaging to get past the box. They fit the factory box fine.

I spoke with Borgeson a bit more on these boxes and the "tight spot" at center is a by product of them using used gear sets and tightening them up, same as what Firm feel does or can do. Borgeson guys said the tight spot would go away after the gears wore in a bit. It seems to me that unless you REALLY need the 12lbs off the nose or are converting a manual car to power; you can get to the same destination by having your box rebuilt by Firm Feel..

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613696
05/06/14 02:52 PM
05/06/14 02:52 PM
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For the money and machining center they are using you would think the pitman arms would fit correctly. Darn shame.

Any idea if they plan on resolving the issue?

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613697
05/06/14 03:15 PM
05/06/14 03:15 PM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Thanks dan for posting about the dougs headers. Was wondering how they would fit. Almost bought a set - I bought the hedman headers instead because according to firm feel clear the fast ratio arms. Ill post if they clear the box in the next day or two

Last edited by dangina; 05/06/14 03:15 PM.
Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613698
05/06/14 04:59 PM
05/06/14 04:59 PM
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline OP
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Quote:

Thanks dan for posting about the dougs headers. Was wondering how they would fit. Almost bought a set - I bought the hedman headers instead because according to firm feel clear the fast ratio arms. Ill post if they clear the box in the next day or two




To that point as well, Fast Ratio stuff will not clear the Dougs. Standard Ratio barely fit.

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