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Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? #1606561 04/13/14 12:01 AM 04/13/14 12:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal RylisPro OP top fuel
RylisPro OP top fuel Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal	Anyone have more pics of the roll cages used in the E-body Trans Am cars? I was looking and these were all I found so far Also need more pics of how they tied the cage to the shock towers I need the pics to get ideas on how to build the roll cage in my car Thanks 73 `Cuda Instagram: @rylispro YouTube: RylisPro www.rylispro.com 925-214-9192

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606562 04/13/14 01:10 AM 04/13/14 01:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,680 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,680 Hamtramck, PA	Some details from inside the car(s) as they were being done at http://www.challengertaregistry.com/photos/sam_posey/sam_pics_027.jpg http://www.challengertaregistry.com/photos/sam_posey/racecarbuild_025.jpg http://www.challengertaregistry.com/photos/sam_posey/racecarbuild_031.jpg

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606563 04/13/14 08:09 PM 04/13/14 08:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,410 Pikes Peak Country T TC@HP2 master
TC@HP2 master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,410 Pikes Peak Country	Unless you're going for a spot on reproduction of the comp cars, I don't know that I'd want to copy the TA cages exactly. Even post 1970, the kit car program identified alterations that were improvements and a fair amount has been learned since then about about chassis rigidty and improvements. Looking at some of the pictures Barry put up, these cages appear to be pretty limited by the rule set of the day. One of the biggest highlights in the ensuing years has been discovering the amount flex in the front third of the car and the need to have more rigidity in the firewall/A piller area and rocker area.

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: TC@HP2] #1606564 04/13/14 10:00 PM 04/13/14 10:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,617 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,617 So Cal	Quote: Unless you're going for a spot on reproduction of the comp cars, I don't know that I'd want to copy the TA cages exactly. Even post 1970, the kit car program identified alterations that were improvements and a fair amount has been learned since then about about chassis rigidty and improvements. Looking at some of the pictures Barry put up, these cages appear to be pretty limited by the rule set of the day. One of the biggest highlights in the ensuing years has been discovering the amount flex in the front third of the car and the need to have more rigidity in the firewall/A piller area and rocker area. I'd agree. I'd be looking to copy what Kevin Wesley has been doing to his car here: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post8073886 IMHO, it's more practical for what I think you intend to do with the car. Spring Fling 37 May 3 & 4, 2025 at Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA 600+ Mopars, 200+ swap, midway, Friday Malibu cruise,

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606565 04/14/14 02:49 PM 04/14/14 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,443 NW Chicago suburban area Mopar Mitch pro stock
Mopar Mitch pro stock Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,443 NW Chicago suburban area	Rylis... I've sat in the Posey and Gurney cars and took a bunch of pics... (even warmed up the engine of the 77 car before a vintage race at Road America!.. ~2012) I'll try to post later. If I'm correct, I've read that the AAR/T/A were the first TransAm cars to have ever had their roll-cages designed using a computer. Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: Mopar Mitch] #1606566 04/14/14 07:50 PM 04/14/14 07:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,617 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,617 So Cal	Quote: ... If I'm correct, I've read that the AAR/T/A were the first TransAm cars to have ever had their roll-cages designed using a computer. I remember Bob Tarozzi saying something like that. It's an uncompromised race car. Nothing compromised for street use. Still 40+ years ago design. I think the biggest looking design differences today would involve the safety aspect. Spring Fling 37 May 3 & 4, 2025 at Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA 600+ Mopars, 200+ swap, midway, Friday Malibu cruise,

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: autoxcuda] #1606567 04/14/14 08:10 PM 04/14/14 08:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal RylisPro OP top fuel
RylisPro OP top fuel Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal	Just dropped my car off at the shop to get my cage welded using 1 3/4" .095 wall mild steel tubing. I'm not getting a 70's cage welded as the cage is going to have X bars at the doors since I'm keeping my door structure/windows. I may take the door beams out to save weight though. I was wondering how the cage is going to be tied to the front shock and wanted to get more ideas. I have a heater core in the way though. I saw that Dart Lite's cage and thought it was really cool, just wasn't sure if that shock bracing went through to the rest of the cage or if it just stops at the starfish looking portion of the firewall. I might not get that far as my brake master cylinder is in the way so well see... 73 `Cuda Instagram: @rylispro YouTube: RylisPro www.rylispro.com 925-214-9192

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606568 04/14/14 08:22 PM 04/14/14 08:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States P PHJ426 master
PHJ426 master P Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States	Can't find pictures of these parts...but remember the old XV Motorsports firewall to shock tower brace? Doubt that will work either with a factory heater box on the passenger side. It's tough to make a complete race car cage into a car that is retaining its street luxury components.

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606569 04/14/14 08:25 PM 04/14/14 08:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Just a heads up, SCCA rules state 1.75" .120 wall IIRC. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: 72Swinger] #1606570 04/14/14 10:24 PM 04/14/14 10:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal RylisPro OP top fuel
RylisPro OP top fuel Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal	Quote: Just a heads up, SCCA rules state 1.75" .120 wall IIRC. Took a screen shot off my phone. This is the SCCA GCR as of Feb. 2014 Over 2699 lbs. 1.75 x 0.095 Hopefully I don't have to use 0.120 wall as it would add more weight 73 `Cuda Instagram: @rylispro YouTube: RylisPro www.rylispro.com 925-214-9192

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606571 04/14/14 11:55 PM 04/14/14 11:55 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 256 USA C Consulier enthusiast
Consulier enthusiast C Joined: May 2005 Posts: 256 USA	NASA over 3,000 is .120 I would use .120 since most other sanctioning bodies follow the NASA spec.

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606572 04/15/14 12:05 AM 04/15/14 12:05 AM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 256 USA C Consulier enthusiast
Consulier enthusiast C Joined: May 2005 Posts: 256 USA	Quote: I was wondering how the cage is going to be tied to the front shock and wanted to get more ideas. I have a heater core in the way though. I saw that Dart Lite's cage and thought it was really cool, just wasn't sure if that shock bracing went through to the rest of the cage or if it just stops at the starfish looking portion of the firewall. There is a lateral bar that comes off the downtube to the backside of the underhood bar and a downtube from that intersection to the floor mount. Makes a nice triangle to tie in the forward section.

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: Consulier] #1606573 04/15/14 12:10 AM 04/15/14 12:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	My mentality is its better to err to the big side so your covered. Would suck to have to yank it all out later if your goals change IMO. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: 72Swinger] #1606574 04/15/14 01:13 AM 04/15/14 01:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal RylisPro OP top fuel
RylisPro OP top fuel Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal	You guys make a great point, 0.120 it is I wonder how much more it will weigh? 73 `Cuda Instagram: @rylispro YouTube: RylisPro www.rylispro.com 925-214-9192

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606575 04/15/14 01:17 AM 04/15/14 01:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Im guessing a 20-40 lb difference between .095 and .120. You could weigh a stick of each and do the math. Around here un-cut DOM comes in 20ft sticks, be kind've a pain to weigh though. Edit: Found it .120 is .573 lb more per foot So 20ft of it is a whopping 11.46 lbs more. Last edited by 72Swinger; 04/15/14 01:23 AM. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606576 04/23/14 10:40 AM 04/23/14 10:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal RylisPro OP top fuel
RylisPro OP top fuel Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal	I think I figured out how to tie the roll cage with the shock tower together. I just bought these inner fender braces from US Car Tool which gave me the idea If I tied the A pillar with tubing that goes the same path as the brace through the inner fender into the engine compartment and down to the frame rail like so: it should strengthen things up quite a bit 73 `Cuda Instagram: @rylispro YouTube: RylisPro www.rylispro.com 925-214-9192

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606577 04/23/14 10:59 AM 04/23/14 10:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas	Quote: You guys make a great point, 0.120 it is I wonder how much more it will weigh? 1.75x0.095" wall DOM is 1.679lb/ft 1.75"x0.120" wall DOM is 2.089lb/ft So if you used two 20' sticks, you'd be looking at a 16.5lb difference. Just a random number on length there.. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm...amp;top_cat=197 1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi 2020 RAM 1500 [img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606578 04/23/14 10:43 PM 04/23/14 10:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada dangina pro stock
dangina pro stock Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada	Quote: it should strengthen things up quite a bit I like it

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606579 05/09/14 08:42 PM 05/09/14 08:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal RylisPro OP top fuel
RylisPro OP top fuel Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal	I'm legal in all classes now 73 `Cuda Instagram: @rylispro YouTube: RylisPro www.rylispro.com 925-214-9192

Re: Trans Am E-body roll cage pics? [Re: RylisPro] #1606580 05/10/14 12:08 PM 05/10/14 12:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 40 upper So. CA N ntsqd member
ntsqd member N Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 40 upper So. CA	Quote: My first Rule of Thumb is that a tube bender is a tool, not an obligation. A straight section of tube is stiff and structural. A section of tube with an unsupported bend in it is a spring. To me those front tubes are springs and not of any structural value. Feed loads into the structure at tube intersections (or better put: put the tube intersections at the load points). A tube intersection in the middle of nowhere, like the front of the bent front tubes above, does nothing for the car but add weight. Take that bend out, put a bend in it to align it with the top of the engine bay and extend it to the core support, then put in a "Monte Carlo bar" tying those two bends together across the engine bay, then tie across in front of the radiator with at least a single diagonal if not an X. Now you're starting to build some stiffness into the chassis. Simplified I see two distinct possible distortions of the OE front structure. First is the UCA inner mounts trying to move laterally under load. The second is the whole front of the car trying to twist. If we didn't have an engine in the way an X'd pair of tubes crossing from the left upper shock mount to the right UCA mount and vice versa would stop those 4 points from moving relative to each other. Then the second mode, the twist comes along. If there were truss type structure btwn the end-points of the X above and the main cage it would resist the twist. The reality is that there is an engine and a radiator and steering, and and and to work around. But if you start with the ideal you can then fit it around the reality. I have seen that X fitted btwn the engine and the radiator (electric fans) and I have seen that X in front of the radiator. When in front there was removable structure over the top of the engine. To do this clean and nice have a look at the cage couplers that DeNunzio Racing offers. http://www.denunzioracing.com/shop/denunzio/tubecouplings.html I used to swerve around my hallucinations, now I drive right thru them.

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