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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014
[Re: perlhaqr]
#1592910
03/28/14 03:03 PM
03/28/14 03:03 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
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Quote:
What's the extension on the front side of the engine mount for?
Just mock up stuff.
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014
[Re: jcc]
#1592912
03/28/14 07:00 PM
03/28/14 07:00 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
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Quote:
So is the plan to ballast up to 3000? I see Mig and Tig going on here, so I assume this MS and not CM? With such an extensive build I would have thought Cm was a more favorable solution or is that not FIA approved? I wonder what vertical movement/flex might occur with the front bent tower connector brace under dynamic loads.
Your fabricators are talented. 
Chromoly is not allowed by the rules where I will run.
The only class to ballast up to would be that SCCA CAM class. I doubt this car will see much action in that class. Plus, I think that is with driver anyway, so it wouldn't be an issue.
USCA is "dry weight" or less driver as I read it and that would put me in the under 3k class.
If I really want to start taking weight out, I figure there is another couple hundred pounds moving to all fiberglass. Plus I could still do an alum block as well. Don't think I'll need it, unless I move to a small motor for some reason.
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: Consulier]
#1592913
04/02/14 01:29 AM
04/02/14 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 706
USA
rftroy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 706
USA
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Quote:
Details on the electric steering conversion I posted on FABO.
_________________________
You shove the unit from a Vue/Cruze/Equinox under the dash and run a controller available on eBay.
I'm using a Hower 2:1 steering quickener between the column and the manual box. That will give me 12:1. If I want faster I can switch to a 20:1, or 16:1, box to speed it up more and even go to fast ratio idler/pitman to adjust even further.
Since $$$ seems to be a hot topic in the thread, let's look at how much is going into this solution.
Used Vue column $100
eBay controller $65
Howe Quickener $92
U Joints/Couplers/Steering Shaft $325
Borgeson Manual Box $380
Wow... $962 for a complete electric steering solution with steering box. Price out a new FFI box (or Borgeson), rebuilt column, pump, pulleys and it's pretty much a wash.
What really drove this decision? The headers... 2" TTI Gen3 will not clear any power steering box. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to put in this solution than have a set of custom headers built. Plus, better packaging, adjustable, etc...
Kevin,
I saw this as a great alternative to running a manual 16:1 box in my Challenger since the factory power unit is an increase of almost 40 pounds.
That was before yesterday's news when GM recalled close to a million and a half cars for this faulty electric power steering unit.
So, first, do we know what the flaws in this unit are (they seem to have been corrected after 2010, judging by the recall parameters. Unless this box was discontinued after 2010) and can we, the users, implement any fixes?
Second, would you show us the structure you fabricate to mount the unit under the dash? This would save some wheel reinvention when I go to put mine in an E body.
I wouldn't think it would be too complicated. With the factory setup all the torque is provided by the driver and reacted by the steering box. The column mounts only have to take the lateral reaction loads.
With this electric box a lot of the torque, and a smaller reaction load, is now taken by the dash structure. Since people aren't too strong, I would think that the structure to react the loads would not need to be too hefty.
Have you got this structural reinforcement planned out yet?
Robert
AAR 4-speed 3.91, Tor-Red;
70 440 6 pack Roadrunner 4-speed 3.54, Plum Crazy;
68 Formula S conv 383 4-speed 3.23, Electric Blue;
69 Barracuda conv Slant 6 OD4 2.94, 71 B5 Blue;
78 Lil' Red Truck, Red;
70 Challenger S/E. 505 6 pack, Passon 5-speed, 3.55, B7 Blue
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: rftroy]
#1592914
04/02/14 01:58 AM
04/02/14 01:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
67autocross
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Details on the electric steering conversion I posted on FABO.
_________________________
You shove the unit from a Vue/Cruze/Equinox under the dash and run a controller available on eBay.
I'm using a Hower 2:1 steering quickener between the column and the manual box. That will give me 12:1. If I want faster I can switch to a 20:1, or 16:1, box to speed it up more and even go to fast ratio idler/pitman to adjust even further.
Since $$$ seems to be a hot topic in the thread, let's look at how much is going into this solution.
Used Vue column $100
eBay controller $65
Howe Quickener $92
U Joints/Couplers/Steering Shaft $325
Borgeson Manual Box $380
Wow... $962 for a complete electric steering solution with steering box. Price out a new FFI box (or Borgeson), rebuilt column, pump, pulleys and it's pretty much a wash.
What really drove this decision? The headers... 2" TTI Gen3 will not clear any power steering box. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to put in this solution than have a set of custom headers built. Plus, better packaging, adjustable, etc...
Kevin,
I saw this as a great alternative to running a manual 16:1 box in my Challenger since the factory power unit is an increase of almost 40 pounds.
That was before yesterday's news when GM recalled close to a million and a half cars for this faulty electric power steering unit.
So, first, do we know what the flaws in this unit are (they seem to have been corrected after 2010, judging by the recall parameters. Unless this box was discontinued after 2010) and can we, the users, implement any fixes?
Second, would you show us the structure you fabricate to mount the unit under the dash? This would save some wheel reinvention when I go to put mine in an E body.
I wouldn't think it would be too complicated. With the factory setup all the torque is provided by the driver and reacted by the steering box. The column mounts only have to take the lateral reaction loads.
With this electric box a lot of the torque, and a smaller reaction load, is now taken by the dash structure. Since people aren't too strong, I would think that the structure to react the loads would not need to be too hefty.
Have you got this structural reinforcement planned out yet?
Robert
I have a 2012 Mustang with electronic power assisted steering and to be honest it has done a few strange things in the last few years. In the summer if you take a bunch of hard corners it sometimes will shake the steering wheel in your hand after you would pull it straight. And this winter I had the car out maybe 5 times and twice while driving it the steering stuck to the point I had to give it a hard snap to get it to turn, Ford did just put out recall for some of their other cars but not the mustang.
It does have good feel and you can change the steering effort with the push of a button.
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: rftroy]
#1592915
04/02/14 08:16 AM
04/02/14 08:16 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
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Quote:
That was before yesterday's news when GM recalled close to a million and a half cars for this faulty electric power steering unit.
So, first, do we know what the flaws in this unit are (they seem to have been corrected after 2010, judging by the recall parameters. Unless this box was discontinued after 2010) and can we, the users, implement any fixes?
All the news I have seen revolves around the ignition switch for the recall and the power steering issues are for a different system (Cobalts, HHR's, etc...). There are some known issues and known fixes with the one I selected, but those are well documented and simple. When GM fixes it, they just swap out the entire unit, so the entire assembly is labeled as "bad". Typically you will see a burned up motor is this unit, which is available for replacement. Don't lump the Equinox/Vue unit in the with the Cobalts and HHR's. Different system that is being recalled.
One thing to remember, this system is adjustable. The motors burn up from slow parking lot, lock to lock, daily driver stuff. This thing isn't a daily driver. If you are worried about burning the thing up in slow stuff like that, turn the thing down. What's left? Your usual Mopar manual steering.
We'll see how it goes, but I'm not losing sleep over this. It's a very well documented swap in Europe on a lot of cars.
Quote:
Second, would you show us the structure you fabricate to mount the unit under the dash? This would save some wheel reinvention when I go to put mine in an E body.
I wouldn't think it would be too complicated. With the factory setup all the torque is provided by the driver and reacted by the steering box. The column mounts only have to take the lateral reaction loads.
With this electric box a lot of the torque, and a smaller reaction load, is now taken by the dash structure. Since people aren't too strong, I would think that the structure to react the loads would not need to be too hefty.
Have you got this structural reinforcement planned out yet?
When I have pics of the mounts they come up with I will post them up and detail the build.
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: Consulier]
#1592916
04/03/14 12:03 AM
04/03/14 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 706
USA
rftroy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 706
USA
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Quote:
Don't lump the Equinox/Vue unit in the with the Cobalts and HHR's. Different system that is being recalled.
Yep, you're right, I checked the recall list; I'm not up on GM vehicles.
Good to know. Thanks, Kevin. Time to hit the wrecking yards.
Looked up specs on Saturn Vue and Chevy Equinox. Saturn is about 3500 lbs., and the Chevy is 3926 per Chevy's website, so the power steering unit should be a decent match to a lightened Challenger, even with big tires.
Robert
AAR 4-speed 3.91, Tor-Red;
70 440 6 pack Roadrunner 4-speed 3.54, Plum Crazy;
68 Formula S conv 383 4-speed 3.23, Electric Blue;
69 Barracuda conv Slant 6 OD4 2.94, 71 B5 Blue;
78 Lil' Red Truck, Red;
70 Challenger S/E. 505 6 pack, Passon 5-speed, 3.55, B7 Blue
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: dangina]
#1592919
04/23/14 10:02 AM
04/23/14 10:02 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
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When they get the next round of pics loaded the details should be in there. I was down for seat and steering column placement a couple weeks ago and looked at it. The rear shock upper mount was all cut out. A new bar between the rails was fabbed and tied into the down tubes of the cage. It moves the upper mount out more so that the shocks are more vertical. Super beefy and reinforced so there shouldn't be any issues with durability. You can see a little bit in this pic how far out the upper mount was moved. 
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: Consulier]
#1592920
04/23/14 10:12 AM
04/23/14 10:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Looks like the rails are moved in a tad. That car should be rediculous.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1592921
04/23/14 11:45 AM
04/23/14 11:45 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
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Quote:
Looks like the rails are moved in a tad. That car should be rediculous.
Framerails are untouched. Wheel wells are opened up to the outside and you can see the inner tubs are stock.
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: Consulier]
#1592922
04/23/14 12:01 PM
04/23/14 12:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
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master
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Nebraska
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I was looking at the trunk supports and they're different on the Duster trunks. That makes it look like the inner tubs are moved in further. Optical illusion.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1592924
05/15/14 08:59 AM
05/15/14 08:59 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: Consulier]
#1592925
05/15/14 09:28 AM
05/15/14 09:28 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: Consulier]
#1592928
06/09/14 12:18 PM
06/09/14 12:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
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master
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Nebraska
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Looks just right Kevin, what wheels? Can we put a 71 Demon nose on her?? That would require a hood change, not really something that is probably a priority.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1592929
06/09/14 01:43 PM
06/09/14 01:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
I got lucky at Woodward!
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I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Looks just right Kevin, what wheels? Can we put a 71 Demon nose on her?? That would require a hood change, not really something that is probably a priority.
Hey, stop trying to make it so mainstream with a Demon front end. It's a '76 Dart Sport. 
And I agree, those are nice looking wheels.
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