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aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi #1592803 03/14/14 12:56 PM 03/14/14 12:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota Hemi_Joel OP master
Hemi_Joel OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota	HI, I'm building a 392 hemi using a 1958 block, putting in a 5/8 stroker crank. (4.525") This moter will have steel rods and high compression, and I want to build it to hold up to drag strip thrashing and street cruising. Bottom end strength is a big concern. I plan to convert it to 4 bolt mains. I have talked to a handful of reputable machine shops about using aluminum main caps, and I get a different opinion from everyone. Some say do it, some say never do it, others don't have much opinion. So what are the pros and cons of the aluminum vs steel caps? Besides weight? Thanks, Joel [img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img] 31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: Hemi_Joel] #1592804 03/14/14 01:25 PM 03/14/14 01:25 PM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,392 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY Dragula I Live Here
Dragula I Live Here Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,392 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY	Interesting post... There was an article a while back on building a mega hp "whale motor" for nostalgia racing... Can't find it though. I beleieve they said the +40 bottom end was good to go, but I am sure that wasn't with as big of a stroke as your planning... What would concern me is what rpm are you going to max out at...With the stroke you are planning, my thought is the cylinder wall on the thrust side will have to take the greatest load...And that is where I think things get interesting. Me, if it were my engine, Pro-Gram billets would be in it again...But if you want a better opinion, call my engine builder as he has assembled a number of these early Hemi's. Ron Farley 716-799-5588 '70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9) '66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage '71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: Hemi_Joel] #1592805 03/14/14 02:25 PM 03/14/14 02:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,200 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,200 Bend,OR USA	Which block are you using, standard, RR or A-1? the standards have a open slot between the mains and the bottom of the cylinders, not a good choice for high HP or high RPM The RR and A1 will have those initials cast into the top of the lifter valley and the edge of the deck, usually on the rear passenger side, thier supposedily better castings with more meat in the block Let us know what you find A lot of the old time racers like to use the 354 blocks to build do to the problems with the 392 blocks the 1955 and 1956 heads are better also, better port angle to the valves, just install the size valves you want to run in them Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/14/14 03:31 PM.

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: Cab_Burge] #1592806 03/14/14 02:39 PM 03/14/14 02:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	This is hearsay, but the 1958 blocks supposedly have less support to the lifter bores and can actually fail if you use too big a camshaft. Something to check out. R.

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: dogdays] #1592807 03/14/14 02:53 PM 03/14/14 02:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,392 nielsville, minn. Q quickd100 master
quickd100 master Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,392 nielsville, minn.	Joel; Call Jim Swedberg at 701-775-0113. He's raced and built the old hemis forever and probably forgot more about them then we'll ever know. May have a few old speed parts for them too.Dave

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: quickd100] #1592808 03/14/14 04:08 PM 03/14/14 04:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 941 Texas, USA ChrgrCuda super stock
ChrgrCuda super stock Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 941 Texas, USA	Looking forward to seeing the outcome of your project. Very cool! So what are some flow numbers from those early heads? 68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email] 69 Charger R/T 440/505 2009 Challenger SRT8

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: ChrgrCuda] #1592809 03/14/14 08:14 PM 03/14/14 08:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 284 STL ,MO H Handygun enthusiast
Handygun enthusiast H Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 284 STL ,MO	Bob Mckray, Gene Adams and a few others have gotten 370 on the intake out of the 555 heads. If I could do my 392 again it would be a stroked 354, Stiffer block,smaller package. Big Al's toybox has a run of Moroso pans in stock. Stud everything and plan on buying adapters for everything. My timid hydraulic 392 pushes my 4300 58 Ply wgn to mid 13's through manifolds and a 518. Good luck Joel and great X BTW.

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: Handygun] #1592810 03/14/14 08:50 PM 03/14/14 08:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Bob Mckray, Gene Adams and a few others have gotten 370 on the intake out of the 555 heads. If I could do my 392 again it would be a stroked 354, Stiffer block,smaller package. Big Al's toybox has a run of Moroso pans in stock. Stud everything and plan on buying adapters for everything. My timid hydraulic 392 pushes my 4300 58 Ply wgn to mid 13's through manifolds and a 518. Good luck Joel and great X BTW. Is that engine(back mount area) set up for a BB trans

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: ChrgrCuda] #1592811 03/14/14 09:21 PM 03/14/14 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota Hemi_Joel OP master
Hemi_Joel OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota	Its an A1 block, but still the web between the main bearing bore and the pan rail is quite thin. I'll have to take a close look at the lifter bores. Dave, thanks for the referral, I'll give him a call. Aftermarket heads can flow 360+ on the intake... I bought this billit crankshaft off ebay, it turns out that the seller was John Calvert and he said the crank checked out good. Today I dropped it off to be magged anyway, just to be safe before I start the build.

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: Handygun] #1592812 03/14/14 09:24 PM 03/14/14 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota Hemi_Joel OP master
Hemi_Joel OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota	Quote: Bob Mckray, Gene Adams and a few others have gotten 370 on the intake out of the 555 heads. If I could do my 392 again it would be a stroked 354, Stiffer block,smaller package. Big Al's toybox has a run of Moroso pans in stock. Stud everything and plan on buying adapters for everything. My timid hydraulic 392 pushes my 4300 58 Ply wgn to mid 13's through manifolds and a 518. Good luck Joel and great X BTW. How much stroke will a fit in a 354? I'm not married to the 392 block, but since I already have the 4.525 bilet crank, I want to use it.

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: Hemi_Joel] #1592813 03/15/14 12:45 AM 03/15/14 12:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,200 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,200 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Quote: Bob Mckray, Gene Adams and a few others have gotten 370 on the intake out of the 555 heads. If I could do my 392 again it would be a stroked 354, Stiffer block,smaller package. Big Al's toybox has a run of Moroso pans in stock. Stud everything and plan on buying adapters for everything. My timid hydraulic 392 pushes my 4300 58 Ply wgn to mid 13's through manifolds and a 518. Good luck Joel and great X BTW. How much stroke will a fit in a 354? I'm not married to the 392 block, but since I already have the 4.525 bilet crank, I want to use it. Man, that is a long stroke for one of those motors Is it a blown fuel application with the center counter weigts or no center counter weights? What size main and rod journals is it I had a Reath Auotomotive welded 4.375 chrome stroker crank at one time, never got around to using it As far as the original question on which material main caps I would use aluminum on the street and steel for a race only, if I was going to use a stock type block that is I've dreamed of trying to use a Dononvan 417 aluminum block on the street, they (Donovan) said don't do it Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/15/14 01:41 AM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: Cab_Burge] #1592814 03/15/14 01:45 AM 03/15/14 01:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota Hemi_Joel OP master
Hemi_Joel OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota	It has 8 counterweights.

Re: aluminum vs. steel main caps 392 hemi [Re: Hemi_Joel] #1592815 03/15/14 12:10 PM 03/15/14 12:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 284 STL ,MO H Handygun enthusiast
Handygun enthusiast H Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 284 STL ,MO	You run an adapter to push the trans back to clear the "extended" flange on the crank, then run the A motor trans. I don't know how long of a stroke you could run in a 354 but I'm with Cab on the apprehension on running that much stroke. Gene Adams was developing a siamesed iron Chrysler block that could really take advantage of all the aftermarket parts with out so much risk of grenading a 50+yr old collectors item block but I haven't heard much about it lately.My car doesn't even begin to approach the level the level of massaging a FAST car has, But to me It's impressive of how well it runs with minor cleanup on 354 heads, lightwt pistons and rods,220/.480 cam and an alum copy of the oem single 4 intake.

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