Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: fullmetaljacket]
#1583815
02/25/14 09:03 PM
02/25/14 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Chassis being a factory production chassis and frame being a tube frame as in fabricated car?
From what you are saying I call it backwards then... when I say a chassis car.. thats meaning a tube chassis car.. frame as in a production car... I do ground the heads to the chassis but I use the chassis as the ground link... so far I've never had a problem.. I always looked at it like.. if you roll that .083 tubing into a solid roll its greater than the 1/2" ground cable... and thats just one side of the chassis... electricity will always travel the easiest way(least resistance)
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1583816
02/25/14 09:06 PM
02/25/14 09:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,849
fullmetaljacket
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,849
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: fullmetaljacket]
#1583817
02/25/14 10:46 PM
02/25/14 10:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,423 Weatherford, Texas
RapidusMaximus
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,423
Weatherford, Texas
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This is an odd topic for me...or I just got lucky , I ve run aluminum heads for years, never used anti-seize or grounded anything special never had any issues.
1968 Plymouth GTX 1974 Dodge P/U Long Bed Stepside 318 2019 Ram 2500 6.4, auto, 4WD
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: RapidusMaximus]
#1583818
02/25/14 10:57 PM
02/25/14 10:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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I was told by a tech guy at ngk that it screws with the plugs ability to transfer heat. This in turns changes the heat range on the plug.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1583819
02/26/14 12:31 AM
02/26/14 12:31 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
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Quote:
I do agree the chassis should be a good ground being you run your Neg off the battery to the chassis.I was having problems a few years back when I put my 1st all aluminum engine in my dragster and thought the chassis was good enough I even had my MSD ground bolted to it instead of the battery.But when I grounded each head to the same spot on the block as well as my MSD ground and run a ground cable to the Neg (which is ground to the chassis)like the MSD tech. said all my problems went away. I can grin about it now but when I was having problems,I did not think it was very funny and the tech. at MSD had a hard time making me believe it had to be that way.
PS I like to think that sometimes us Racers are just to smart for our own good....but I guess the Truth be told we are just to Hard-Headed to listen.
Sometimes I don't know why my car even runs My hole car needs rewired and I'm not looking forward to it.
That's interesting 1967artGT
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: roadhazard]
#1583820
02/26/14 12:50 AM
02/26/14 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey
jamesc
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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Quote:
They also advised us to ground each head separately to insure proper grounding with aluminum heads.
yea because the single bolt and wire you're going to use to ground the head is going to have less resistance than the 17 head fasteners and four fire rings
idk where thy come up with this stuff, if the block and ignition are properly grounded i just don't see where this is necessary
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1583823
02/26/14 10:42 AM
02/26/14 10:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341 Highland beach Fl
poisondart2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
Highland beach Fl
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Quote:
Quote:
Interesting discussion...especially in regards to grounding the heads individually. Never heard any of this before
I`ve checked the non-grounded head and it completes current and is fine reading voltage.............interesting. I also probably use too much ante-seize so time to clean out the plug holes I guess.
I would say NO dont use it! Reason is it will NOT be grounded as well as it could be. How many of you have ever checked the fluid in the radiator to see how many volts are there? The fact of the matter is that most cars seem fine but the electronics Dont work as they should. Heck yes you should ground your heads and 4130 chassis is the worst but mild steel chassis car still needs alot more than you want to believe to be properly grounded.If your having problems misses,running the same time-get a volt meter out and check the DC/AC in each circuit on your ride. This is what I have learned
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: poisondart2]
#1583824
02/26/14 12:59 PM
02/26/14 12:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
OP
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Interesting discussion...especially in regards to grounding the heads individually. Never heard any of this before
I`ve checked the non-grounded head and it completes current and is fine reading voltage.............interesting. I also probably use too much ante-seize so time to clean out the plug holes I guess.
I would say NO dont use it! Reason is it will NOT be grounded as well as it could be. How many of you have ever checked the fluid in the radiator to see how many volts are there? The fact of the matter is that most cars seem fine but the electronics Dont work as they should. Heck yes you should ground your heads and 4130 chassis is the worst but mild steel chassis car still needs alot more than you want to believe to be properly grounded.If your having problems misses,running the same time-get a volt meter out and check the DC/AC in each circuit on your ride. This is what I have learned
I have actually been battling this problem for over a month now. Car ran fine below about 4K. Get above that and start running some boost and it starts missing. Seemed like an ignition problem, but after going through the entire ignition system ( multiple times ) I moved on to the fuel system and engine mechanicals. Verified the alternator was good. Volt gauge always ran around 14 volts. Ran a separate volt gauge directly off the distributor feed wire to make sure I was getting 14 vlts to it. When I would pull the plugs, they would always look good. Didn't even look at how much anti-seize was on the plug threads / washers. I was running out of ideas. Decided to put in a fresh set of plugs. Noticed there was a lot of anti-seize in the plug gasket area in the heads, so I wiped that area down and just used a drop of oil on the new plug threads. Engine missing problem gone! Blasts right up to 6500 and 15 lbs of boost without a glitch. I now have a spare ignition module, cap, rotor, alternator, valve springs, and a very clean fuel system.
Fastest 300
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: poisondart2]
#1583825
02/26/14 01:46 PM
02/26/14 01:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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Been there done that myself,I was just to stubborn to listen to the Tech.Reps @ MSD. PS some times we overlook the simplest things or refuse to listen to what someone tells us because we just know that can't be the problem or we think there is no need to do it the way they say even if they make/build the product.
Last edited by MRMOPAR622; 02/26/14 01:50 PM.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1583826
02/26/14 04:03 PM
02/26/14 04:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,739 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,739
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/27/14 12:45 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#1583829
02/26/14 05:22 PM
02/26/14 05:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,806 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,806
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Grounding - From MSD Forum Quote:
We have discovered for decades now that the motor-plates and the ground strap to the block does not provide a sufficient ground. It was initially un-covered that the black etch marks that appear around the block holes of front and rear motor plates was made due to the poor ground paths(we even saw etches in main and rod bearings). With coated studs, aluminum heads, coated gaskets,powder coated frames and customers relaying on the ground strap from the chassis to the block was not enough. To be frank, the spark plugs are in the head and not the block! With this in mind, it was best to have a common ground between the electronics, battery and even the coil to eliminate any floating ground issues that may occur. Majority of the time ,this elinminate "misses" ,tach issues,data logger problems..etc.
Look at the drawing below:
If diagram does not appear below then See attachment
Last edited by GomangoCuda; 02/26/14 07:15 PM.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#1583830
02/26/14 05:52 PM
02/26/14 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,123 Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,123
Niles , Ohio
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If you are that stupid to break a plug installing them then you should not have tools.Period.Reminds me of the guy we had at work.He broke so many bolts it wasnt funny.He would get them as tight as he could then try to get another turn from them.Ive used antisieze since the late 70s.My buddy that does fab and works on big equipment and farm stuff dosent put much together without it.Only guy I know that buys it in gallon cans.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Aluminum heads and spark plugs
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#1583833
02/26/14 06:03 PM
02/26/14 06:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Grounding - From MSD Forum
Quote:
We have discovered for decades now that the motor-plates and the ground strap to the block does not provide a sufficient ground. It was initially un-covered that the black etch marks that appear around the block holes of front and rear motor plates was made due to the poor ground paths(we even saw etches in main and rod bearings). With coated studs, aluminum heads, coated gaskets,powder coated frames and customers relaying on the ground strap from the chassis to the block was not enough. To be frank, the spark plugs are in the head and not the block! With this in mind, it was best to have a common ground between the electronics, battery and even the coil to eliminate any floating ground issues that may occur. Majority of the time ,this elinminate "misses" ,tach issues,data logger problems..etc.
Look at the drawing below:
Yes this is nothing new, when I was racing I never shared tech like this. I love when guys doubt you and you go out beat there azzes on the track.
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