Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: jg309]
#1565221
01/19/14 03:52 PM
01/19/14 03:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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I have been doodling with these heads for a few years. Was going to go the XR2 route. Decided against that. Went on and bought a put together deal mostly complete. You still have to be careful as I found 7 rocker arms that were .100" short.
There are some things I mentioned in the other thread that you would want to change for street use IMO. First would be to change the pistons out for some that run tighter clearance and a better ring package if you do not like an engine that smoke pretty hard when cold. You can block off the spring and piston oilers. But, these oilers can give you the same benefits on the street with cooling these parts. I have thought about these issues a lot. I now have a 440 EEI block with a tighter piston and ring pack. Does not smoke. One engine I have has two different piston oiler setups in it. I blocked one off that really helped the idle oil pressure. I also block off the spring oilers with no problems.
Here is the good news 15 MPG with 4.10 gears and a to loose for the street converter(7,200 RPM). And 800+ on tap is nothing short of a blast on the street. You can convert these engines to wet sump with some changes to the pan, a single stage pump, and some holes cut in the cam tunnel. I hear good results doing this. I plan to do one as soon as I find a buyer who want to do this.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1565223
01/19/14 09:38 PM
01/19/14 09:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,571 New Smyrna Beach FL
scottb
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,571
New Smyrna Beach FL
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Find a complete motor the rings alone are 1500 like I said before all the engine builders did things different and they wont work they are a great motor I had one put it in the car and ran 9.50 all day long
Last edited by scottb; 01/20/14 11:20 AM.
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: scottb]
#1565224
01/19/14 09:57 PM
01/19/14 09:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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The blocks are only 9.00" deck and some are less. Some of the intakes are shorter. I have a Mopar intake that is a lot shorter than the edelbroc I run now.
The blocks are expensive. I had trouble trying to find a replacement. New ones are $1,500 and up. And they require a lot of machine work. The other item is belt drives. I am in need of one and having trouble finding the one I want affordable. There was two I know about. One seals around the crank the other around the lower pulley.
My current engine has run 8.9's at 3000 lbs. It needs a lot of work and tuning. The 358 I ran was geared just a little short for the quarter but ran 5.8's in the eighth. That is 9.0 in the quarter with a glide. A torqueflite is a faster way to go with the 358's IMO.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: Leon441]
#1565225
01/20/14 04:21 AM
01/20/14 04:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163
Melbourne , Australia
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The rings can be pricey, depending on what the ring pack is, a set of rings will set you back around $1200-1500
Alan Jones
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: 1fastabody]
#1565227
01/20/14 12:48 PM
01/20/14 12:48 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 169 Finland, Europe
Ck[FIN]
member
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member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Little things cost alot in these engines. I bought disassembled complete engine and it had everything. Only oil pan bolts and couple hoses vere missing.
I have JE pistons and very thin rings(0.035"). I just asked last week from JE some new rings, 1080usd a set!
I also assembled my friends R5P7, it had only 1 ring + oil ring and it was little thicker, not so expensive, about half the price. Looked like same from the outside than mine but everything was different inside.
As told earlier, little things cost a lot. I have 2.17" Del West titanium intake valves with 6mm stem. I dont even want to ask what they cost new.
-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: Ck[FIN]]
#1565228
01/20/14 03:18 PM
01/20/14 03:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544
Las Vegas
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I just want one...For my 68 D100 street beater. Just want to do something different with the powerplant in the truck. If I ever find one for a good deal and it works out well we will build one for a racecar. Just figured it woudl be a good way to learn. I had one bought, or so I thought from a member here who backed out and sold it to someone else, the way my luck usually works.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1565229
01/20/14 03:45 PM
01/20/14 03:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 41 PA
R5P7 Bantam
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 41
PA
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These engines are not for the faint of heart. If your skill set is limited, I strongly suggest you stay clear of throwing one together with parts from here and there. As Leon mentioned earlier, each shop, during the Chrysler development stages, engineered their "own" unique way to skin the cat. They also acquired parts from various suppliers (jesel, t&d, del-west, etc). Although these parts look and measure "close", they are not interchangeable without some serious attention to detail.
I have built quite a few of these motors and if you're not comfortable with measuring and "real geometry", I suggest paying someone to do it. Granted, purchasing an engine complete and putting it in a car is one thing, but if a part fails, and you need a spare......you better know how to properly measure....and I don't mean with a tape measure either.
This message is by no means intended to scare or BS anyone, it's just an experienced viewpoint on these engines. And yes, I personally run one and wouldn't run anything else in SBM form. We're going 177 mph in the quarter with less than .730" lift (N/A).
For the street, buy a complete engine (5k) and purchase new pistons (1k) and a manageable ring package ($200) (.043 - 1/16") and let it eat. I wouldn't change anything else.....nothing!
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: SpareParts]
#1565231
01/20/14 11:27 PM
01/20/14 11:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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I have two I am getting rid of. I have not listed them simply because there is just too many ways to do the deal. Anything from load up enough parts to build one for X amount or I build one to suit your needs to I install one in your car ready to race. There is a just too many variable to list one and cover the price restriction in the parts forums.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1565232
01/21/14 08:52 PM
01/21/14 08:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207 Menomonee Falls
DemonDust
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
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Quote:
I mean I just found stainless steel headers for $ 475!
Those will not work in your car. The engine will not sit down far enough. The collectors will come thru the firewall right where your feet sit.
It's a pain to piece together as stated above. I have two that I built personally. The heads I got as a package deal so everything was correct. And this is the most important.
The short block assy is a bit easier but still have to be careful. Even though there is one dedicated R5 block, these blocks have many variables. There are two different crank seal styles 1 piece and 2 piece. Depending on which seal type you have it requires a different style crank. A 1 piece rear main seal block will not work with a 2 piece rear main seal crank and vice versa. Now between the two crank styles there are 3 different rod journals Chevy, IRL, and Honda. Once you figure all this out then you will have 3 different crank flanges you will end up with. The 6 bolt chevy, 6 bolt ford, or the 8 bolt nascar flange.
I used the older stuff from early 2000's. Just because it easier to work with since they used the chevy journals and the pistons used .927 pins and .043 and 1/16 ring packs. The later stuff is ridiculous in the various different size wrist pins and ring packs.
The downside is a lot of the older stuff is being held on very tightly and is very hard to find.
Also if you're going with a manual, be prepared to spend money to make that trans shift at 9000+ Rpms. A 833 wont do it no matter how much you want it to. Most of these engines don't make good power til around 6500-7000 but once the rpms get there be ready cause all he77 is gonna break loose
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: DemonDust]
#1565233
01/21/14 09:30 PM
01/21/14 09:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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I had the idea for a while anyway that a chevy flange crank would be a good option. Then I found out they were used in the two piece rear seal blocks. I understand they are harder to come by.
The different rod journal size deal is not that big a deal. You need bearings you read the number off your bearing. Call CV products and order a set. Sure a 2.00" chevy rod is by far the easiest to deal with. I have 1.850 bearings in one and they were fairly easy to get. I even found some with a chamfered wide cut to match exactly what I had.
There are a lot of different wrist pins also. But, if you have it apart ordering custom piston replacements you can buy rods cheap with another pin diameter cheap on the bag. There are tons of pistons available cheap also. A lot of them heavier with favorable ring packages.
The heads will not bolt on in most cars, true. But you have plenty of material for a great start to making your own.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: R5P7 Questions- Trying to understand.
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1565234
01/21/14 10:32 PM
01/21/14 10:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 41 PA
R5P7 Bantam
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member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 41
PA
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For the original "poster" and those with interest:
There have been some very good posts from fellow R5P7 users in the above threads. What you have read are some of the variables associated with the various engine builds throughout Nascar in the late 90's - 2007. If you're like any of us, and curious to learn, then I say invest some green and give it a try! There are more and more people learning this engine every year, and a simple PM and a phone call to one another helps every time. Heck, that's how I met Leon and quite a few others (not on this site). In my closing remarks, I see guys on here drop 10's of thousands today on stuff that was ancient technology 25 years ago and think nothing of it. I say, buy a used motor, see if it's your thing, and then truly learn it as you go and freshen it after 250 passes (that's right, after it's already had 500 miles on it)! My last suggestion, please find a friend or attain the skill yourself to perform some machining capabilities. A nice mill and a metal lathe will save you thousands!!
Mike
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