Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
#1564248
01/16/14 10:37 PM
01/16/14 10:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670 Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
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OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Hi! I have a 440.6 engine on my 71 cuda. Its been nicely rebuilt. Forged pistons, 9,4:1 compression ratio (to run on pump gas) punched 55 over it displaces 451 CID Bowl ported and port matched 452 cast iron heads with a nice competition valvejob 2.14 intake valves 1.88 exhaust valves stock exh manifolds full exhaust stock 6 pack carbs Car is a 4 speed. 3.54 Dana 60 This is the cam I have installed in it (attached pic). Do you guys think there would be any gains in going to a different Hydraulic grind (I wish to stay with a hydraulic flat tappet). I feel the engine is torquey and really moves at lower rpms but it peaks out and then hits a plateau and stays "flat", i dont feel like it keeps pulling at higher RPMs, specially when Ive taken it to the drag strip.
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Re: Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
[Re: domingo]
#1564253
01/17/14 02:35 AM
01/17/14 02:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903 Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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Factory manifolds and lower compression like yours would work great with a Mr Six pack Cam.
I just finished a similar build and made 450hp...
114 - 115 LSA will help with manifolds.
Cheers,
Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
[Re: cudabin]
#1564256
01/17/14 09:20 AM
01/17/14 09:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,321 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,321
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Factory manifolds and lower compression like yours would work great with a Mr Six pack Cam.
I just finished a similar build and made 450hp...
114 - 115 LSA will help with manifolds.
Cheers,
Arnie
Did you have a chance to get it to the track last year? Really looking forward to those results.
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Re: Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
[Re: domingo]
#1564260
01/17/14 10:01 PM
01/17/14 10:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 596 Nashville, Tennessee
Tempest
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 596
Nashville, Tennessee
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Quote:
Yes, it ran a best of 14.2ish on street tires (255 BF Goodrich radial TAs).
What was the MPH?
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Re: Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
[Re: Tempest]
#1564261
01/17/14 10:29 PM
01/17/14 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670 Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
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OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes, it ran a best of 14.2ish on street tires (255 BF Goodrich radial TAs).
What was the MPH?
we dont get that at our [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] 3rd world track! Just RT ET TT and 60 ft
We race pro tree
I have a slip here of one of the passes:
Reaction: 0.5 60 : 2.51 ET: 14,49 TT: 14,99
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Re: Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1564264
01/18/14 05:49 AM
01/18/14 05:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670 Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
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OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
You may have other issues if it gases out and you can't get out of 3rd gear in the 1/4, you should be well on your way into 4th by then with 3.54 gears
You are right....
I had to shift into 4th on a few passes---I was crossing just when it begged for 4th-
when I shifted into 4th I crossed the traps right after shifting....
On some passes I shifted on some I didnt!
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Re: Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
[Re: domingo]
#1564265
01/18/14 01:11 PM
01/18/14 01:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,892 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,892
Weddington, N.C.
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Comp 270 (what you have) is a decent 440 stock replacement cam but not big enough to wind the motor up.
A couple great Cams were the old Crower 226/236 @.050 and the 231/240 @.050 Hydraulics but 240 on the exhaust is close to the edge of where I like to go with Exhaust manifolds unless you spread the centers out and put the cam in a bit later (both of which is better for higher RPM's on a smallish port 440). The smaller Crower I mentioned went 12.30's @ 111 all day long in my old stock six pack bottom end 440 in a 3710 pound curb weight Charger 4 speed in the heat of the summer, but it had the little Pea shooter hedman headers and a performer RPM with a tweaked 830 on it. and that was 20 years ago with bowl ported stock heads.
About a year ago I sent a customer a custom Ground Bullet Cam single pattern for a 416" small block in his E body automatic with 3.91's and a GV O/D, very broad powerband and still great cruising in OD with 3 friends in the car. So something similar in size should work very well as well for your six pack. With a 4 speed low end torque is not an issue, you almost want to take a little off the bottom and move it up top.
The key is getting the @.050 and @.200 numbers right for the combo so you don't kill torque and have plenty of air/fuel up top. With manifolds your "5th cycle" overlap scavenging assisting the intake charge achieve >100% VE, is fairly narrow and easy to either overshoot or undershoot, the key is to make the most of it because as most of us know 440's, (like Buicks and many fords) really ET on TORQUE, not so much peak HP.
That's why publishing dyno numbers without the corresponding horsepower and torque band charts are about useless to me.
Pretty sure Bob K (Mr six pack) has that figured out pretty well, I never had one but I'm temped to try one next time out, I think he's got that 5th cycle pretty much optimized for the six packs flow characteristics, I think his "cheater" is NHRA stock legal lift (like .465?), don't know if he has a higher lift version. I know Dan Dvorak used to have a stock lift port job that flowed gangbusters up to about .480 lift but then went turbulent, definitely an application specific type port job but I suspect it would work awesomely with the Mr6pack cam.
Last edited by Streetwize; 01/18/14 01:23 PM.
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Re: Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
[Re: Streetwize]
#1564266
01/18/14 02:31 PM
01/18/14 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670 Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
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OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
Comp 270 (what you have) is a decent 440 stock replacement cam but not big enough to wind the motor up.
A couple great Cams were the old Crower 226/236 @.050 and the 231/240 @.050 Hydraulics but 240 on the exhaust is close to the edge of where I like to go with Exhaust manifolds unless you spread the centers out and put the cam in a bit later (both of which is better for higher RPM's on a smallish port 440). The smaller Crower I mentioned went 12.30's @ 111 all day long in my old stock six pack bottom end 440 in a 3710 pound curb weight Charger 4 speed in the heat of the summer, but it had the little Pea shooter hedman headers and a performer RPM with a tweaked 830 on it. and that was 20 years ago with bowl ported stock heads.
About a year ago I sent a customer a custom Ground Bullet Cam single pattern for a 416" small block in his E body automatic with 3.91's and a GV O/D, very broad powerband and still great cruising in OD with 3 friends in the car. So something similar in size should work very well as well for your six pack. With a 4 speed low end torque is not an issue, you almost want to take a little off the bottom and move it up top.
The key is getting the @.050 and @.200 numbers right for the combo so you don't kill torque and have plenty of air/fuel up top. With manifolds your "5th cycle" overlap scavenging assisting the intake charge achieve >100% VE, is fairly narrow and easy to either overshoot or undershoot, the key is to make the most of it because as most of us know 440's, (like Buicks and many fords) really ET on TORQUE, not so much peak HP.
That's why publishing dyno numbers without the corresponding horsepower and torque band charts are about useless to me.
Pretty sure Bob K (Mr six pack) has that figured out pretty well, I never had one but I'm temped to try one next time out, I think he's got that 5th cycle pretty much optimized for the six packs flow characteristics, I think his "cheater" is NHRA stock legal lift (like .465?), don't know if he has a higher lift version. I know Dan Dvorak used to have a stock lift port job that flowed gangbusters up to about .480 lift but then went turbulent, definitely an application specific type port job but I suspect it would work awesomely with the Mr6pack cam.
Thats waaay beyond my comprehension....LOL
I called BOB K and he said he is having a hard time getting cams ground so he is not doing it at the present moment!!!
I think I will call him again to see if he is having them ground again....or maybe call Scott Brown? Hughes??? Or what about you Wize??? Might want to give it a shot?????
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Re: Help me choose a cam for this "stockish" 440 6 pack
[Re: domingo]
#1564267
01/18/14 03:27 PM
01/18/14 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,892 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,892
Weddington, N.C.
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I do have an account with Bullet, they've been grinding custom grinds for myself and customers for years.....but I remember Dwayne (Fast68Plymouth) also liked the 231/240 Crower cam, he's a great source for cam grinding as well. In several 'back to back' blind taste tests He and I usually spec cams that are uncannily close to one-other, (ask 70Blackfish as one example) which to me is an honor because I have tremendous respect for him I usually defer to Dwayne for people to buy cams from, after-all Engines are his bread and butter and career but for me it's much more a side-line ( I work full time as an engineer). Hughes has got some nice grinds too but not aware if they do any custom grinds, I'm pretty sure Bullet does there cams now.
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