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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: DakFink]
#1563556
01/16/14 07:18 PM
01/16/14 07:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 971
Odessa, Fl
blowndart
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 971
Odessa, Fl
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Quote:
Nothing that can't be done with the older stuff if your willing to start over and use EFI in the process.
Better flowing heads
Higher Static Compression
EFI
Better Cam
I agree. I added EFI, gear vendors over drive and alterkation suspension to make my hemi car more like a modern car and it's so much more enjoyable then the old 60's tech.
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: blowndart]
#1563557
01/16/14 08:11 PM
01/16/14 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Another thing is how all the newer engines all run the same almost all the time. I mean with the the electronics if one SRT8 2013 car runs 12.90's almost all of the same model do. Back in the day the et's were all over the place. Car Craft claimed 13.10 @ 107 from a 70 Hemi Cuda but some mags could not get out of the 14's with them as they ran from a best of mid to low 13's to high 14's depending on the tune which was so important back then. I would say the average 1970 Hemi Cuda or Roadrunner ran high 13's to low 14's. But its embarrasing when some person restores one and has it so far out of tune it runs 15's.  Put a new Hemi in the 70 Cuda and everyone of them most likey would run high 12's. But hey Hot Rod ran 12.60's in 63 with a 63 Max Wedge car and cheater slicks.  Ron
Last edited by 383man; 01/16/14 08:13 PM.
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1563559
01/16/14 08:20 PM
01/16/14 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
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I have an srt8 challenger and my mom has a hemi 300 and i am just amazed how fast they are for a stock vehicle. I remember back when my 68 383 roadrunner was basically stock and this heavier car with smaller engine would eat it alive. every time i drive it i keep saying this thing cant be stock and i was curious is it the head flow they have now or is it the efficiency of new engines] now or is it just a comination of many things
This pretty much sums it up. An engine is only an air pump. Pump MORE air, do it MORE efficiently, you make MORE power. Pretty basic.
Monte
Yup, Technology!
Take a look at the factory G3 heads. Very little short turn and incredible port speed! These factory heads will outperform ALL factory heads off of yesterday!
I will even say they outperform most small block casting that were offered by Mopar, don't know about the big block stuff.
They lack in the transmissions department. They still require a lot of hp to turn. If this new 8 speed ZF trans is as good as they say, 95% efficient, then the MPG gains should be substantial.
I love the New G3. 700 HP from 417 cid and a hydraulic with 11.5 comp. what's not to like.  Matt
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: Blusmbl]
#1563561
01/16/14 08:41 PM
01/16/14 08:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 971
Odessa, Fl
blowndart
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 971
Odessa, Fl
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Quote:
Quote:
The one thing missing that the old big block cars had is TORQUE! You just don't have it like the big motors.
I think that's why I like the GT500's. A positive-displacement supercharger really wakes up the lower end of the torque curve. They feel as stout as a 440 down low. I've driven a Boss as well and didn't care for it... no torque whatsoever.
 That's why I bought a GT500. Plenty of torque and efficient enough to make that much power and not get charged a gas guzzler tax.
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: blowndart]
#1563562
01/16/14 09:32 PM
01/16/14 09:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,767
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,767
Hot Rod Ridge
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Quote:
Quote:
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The one thing missing that the old big block cars had is TORQUE! You just don't have it like the big motors.
I think that's why I like the GT500's. A positive-displacement supercharger really wakes up the lower end of the torque curve. They feel as stout as a 440 down low. I've driven a Boss as well and didn't care for it... no torque whatsoever.
That's why I bought a GT500. Plenty of torque and efficient enough to make that much power and not get charged a gas guzzler tax.
This is why I put the ProCharger on my 6.1 HEMI. Now my SRT Challenger drives like a hot big block.
Plus it ain't a fOrD
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: blowndart]
#1563563
01/16/14 11:22 PM
01/16/14 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,245
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,245
Plymouth, MI
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Quote:
That's why I bought a GT500. Plenty of torque and efficient enough to make that much power and not get charged a gas guzzler tax.
Nice! What year? I'm insanely jealous, especially if it's a '13 or '14. 
Back to the original topic, the main advancement is in the cylinder heads. A 5.7 Hemi head, or a 5.4 4v Ford head, will flow over 300cfm on the intake, and the Ford will also flow 240+ on the exhaust, dead stock with no porting. They also have modern combustion chamber designs with a reasonable quench area and are made of aluminum to allow higher CR's without detonation on pump gas, which is where they have an advantage over something like the original 426 hemi head.
300/240 is better than the first tier of unported aftermarket aluminum heads for a BB Mopar, and completely blows away any set of stock 906's/452's/915's.
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: scottb]
#1563566
01/17/14 04:11 AM
01/17/14 04:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 214
Hamburg / Germany
Den300
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 214
Hamburg / Germany
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aerodynamics also helps to get a better mpg and a higher mph.
would be interesting what you could get out of an old block like a 400
if you put heads with 4 or 5 valves on combined with a fuel injection.
never understood why the 4 valve hemi heads from covalt never made it.
that was "technology" for our old engines!
Hamburg/Germany
69 Chrysler 300
446cui Dual Quad
12.64 @ 110.7
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: Den300]
#1563567
01/17/14 04:50 AM
01/17/14 04:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,388
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,388
Park Forest, IL
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You also have to consider that the new Challenger/Charger has at least 2-300 pounds on an older one. My Challenger isn't much to write home about in 1st and 2nd gear, but hit 3rd you best be hanging on. It pulls like a freight train then. If I can figure out how to finesse it of the starting line, I'm pretty sure it would run 105-108 easy enough. I've been 103 with it pointing the nose to the wall on the 3rd gear shift. Kinda makes you poop when you haven't even made the first payment yet. I do kinda wish I would have gotten an auto/6.4. It would be a more pleasant experience at the track. 
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: DakFink]
#1563568
01/17/14 10:47 AM
01/17/14 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,155
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,155
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
Nothing that can't be done with the older stuff if your willing to start over and use EFI in the process.
Better flowing heads
Higher Static Compression
EFI
Better Cam Profiles
RPMs
All the same stuff that the imports have been doing for years Making 1.0-4.0L 4&6 bangers that fly and sip on gas doing it.
Those 5 are your primary factors. Several others as well but to a lesser extent.
Far as Racing them. Call Ray Barton and ask him. His brother is flying in Stock Class Racing.
There has been a whole lot learned about how to present the fuel air mix to the combustion chamber. Swirl, tumble, fuel droplet size, crevice volume reduction, quench, plug placement. Add to that better valvetrain, big reduction in friction (narrow rings, windage ) more accurate machining(ring seal, head flow) better intake tuning and better exhaust systems. To add to the list, more rpms and narrower rpm range(more gears)
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: gregsdart]
#1563569
01/17/14 11:19 AM
01/17/14 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,936
Finalnd, Perkele
jyrki
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,936
Finalnd, Perkele
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A friend of mine has got a 07 'cuda that used to have a 426 Hemi. I think it run 13's. A couple of years ago he switched it in to a 5.7 Hemi nad it run 12.6's. Now it has got a bone stock 6.1 SRT 8 with headers and has run 11.1 with 9" slicks.
Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: gregsdart]
#1563570
01/17/14 11:23 AM
01/17/14 11:23 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Pretty hard to beat a computer looking at MULTIPLE sensors thousands of times a second to keep everything at optimum ... plus like Greg said we work on the injectors to have them break down the droplets to a finer size 
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: gregsdart]
#1563571
01/17/14 11:28 AM
01/17/14 11:28 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,096
oberlin, Ohio
Rapid340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,096
oberlin, Ohio
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Its forty five years of advances in everything from R&D to manufacturing (computer modeling and simulation, machine control etc). Lets face it, most of us have been playing with antiques for the last 20 years or more. I would be ordering a new hemi challenger if they were at least 500 lbs lighter. I just cant get real excited about performance car that pushes 4200 lbs. 
1971 Factory Appearing Duster 340 11.000 @ 122 mph
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: Rapid340]
#1563572
01/17/14 11:31 AM
01/17/14 11:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
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Quote:
I just cant get real excited about performance car pushing 4200 lbs.
I hear ya! How about a luxury car pushing 4,200 lbs though and running 11's?  
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1563573
01/17/14 11:36 AM
01/17/14 11:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,936
Finalnd, Perkele
jyrki
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,936
Finalnd, Perkele
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There is also overall quality that has changed dramatically. Basically all todays production engines are "blueprinted" at the factory. The quality and tolerances of the muscle car era was pretty horrible.
Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
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Re: what makes the new hemi cars so fast
[Re: AlexP]
#1563575
01/17/14 02:50 PM
01/17/14 02:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
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Quote:
It's the cylinder head for the most part.
I have a '70 Challenger T/A with a 416, street roller cam, fully ported Eddy heads, a warmed over 6 pak, 4 speed, Strange Dana 60 with 4.10 gears. It dyno'd at 499 hp. My wife has a bone stock 2013 Cadillac CTS/V. I would be embarrassed to race her with my Dodge. Don't even ask me about my ZR1 Corvette.
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