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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1552541
12/25/13 11:30 AM
12/25/13 11:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
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I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers but you wouldn't believe what I see week in and week out. There are very few reason why cams go bad and I've seen a lot of them done over and over, Spring pressure (some forget to allow for different rocker ratio's, Some people coat the whole lifter with thick break-in lube instead of just the cam and lifter bottoms, coil bind, IMPROPER START-UP, wrong oil, and a few more. I watch people crank and crank and crank a fresh build probably more than anything some with-out even priming the engine first.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: justinp61]
#1552544
12/25/13 12:17 PM
12/25/13 12:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 939
glendora, ca.
Deepockets
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 939
glendora, ca.
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Quote:
Interesting photo, the lobe looks worn more in the center  . One of the things I started doing several years ago was running a burnishing ball through lifter balls and install the lifters with just wd40 on them to make sure they rotate. Sometime I have to move the lifters to other bores to get them to rotate.
if the lifters spin drop in freey, when does the burnishing tool come in to play? do some blocks have tight bores? not sure what the burnishing tool does.
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: Deepockets]
#1552546
12/25/13 12:56 PM
12/25/13 12:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,688
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,688
W. Kentucky
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Quote:
Quote:
Interesting photo, the lobe looks worn more in the center . One of the things I started doing several years ago was running a burnishing ball through lifter balls and install the lifters with just wd40 on them to make sure they rotate. Sometime I have to move the lifters to other bores to get them to rotate.
if the lifters spin drop in freey, when does the burnishing tool come in to play? do some blocks have tight bores? not sure what the burnishing tool does.
I use the burnishing ball after all machine work and cleaning is finished. It helps make the lifter bores a uniform size and smooth out any roughness. If all your lifters rotate in their bores you don't need it.
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: 70Drop]
#1552547
12/25/13 03:34 PM
12/25/13 03:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Got a picture of the lifter that went with that lobe?
Fastest 300
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1552552
12/26/13 03:51 AM
12/26/13 03:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 223
California
70Drop
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 223
California
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Quote:
I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers but you wouldn't believe what I see week in and week out. There are very few reason why cams go bad and I've seen a lot of them done over and over, Spring pressure (some forget to allow for different rocker ratio's, Some people coat the whole lifter with thick break-in lube instead of just the cam and lifter bottoms, coil bind, IMPROPER START-UP, wrong oil, and a few more. I watch people crank and crank and crank a fresh build probably more than anything some with-out even priming the engine first.
You know, with all the problems people seem to have breaking in their cams, someone smart should offer the service of breaking in cams under controlled conditions. There could be mules of popular engines. The cam could be spun by an electric motor while in an oil bath. The lifters could be loaded with an ideal spring pressure. I could see charging $100 for a service like this, and some people would be happy to pay it.
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: 70Drop]
#1552555
12/26/13 04:34 AM
12/26/13 04:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
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Quote:
Quote:
I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers but you wouldn't believe what I see week in and week out. There are very few reason why cams go bad and I've seen a lot of them done over and over, Spring pressure (some forget to allow for different rocker ratio's, Some people coat the whole lifter with thick break-in lube instead of just the cam and lifter bottoms, coil bind, IMPROPER START-UP, wrong oil, and a few more. I watch people crank and crank and crank a fresh build probably more than anything some with-out even priming the engine first.
You know, with all the problems people seem to have breaking in their cams, someone smart should offer the service of breaking in cams under controlled conditions. There could be mules of popular engines. The cam could be spun by an electric motor while in an oil bath. The lifters could be loaded with an ideal spring pressure. I could see charging $100 for a service like this, and some people would be happy to pay it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGjIIinVDYw
someone is providing that service.
Tony
70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: 70Drop]
#1552556
12/26/13 04:39 AM
12/26/13 04:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,169
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,169
CT
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In my opinion, that may have not helped your issue. My understanding is that 15 thou is good for stock rods, but they have squirter holes in the caps to help lube the cam. Most of the aftermarket rods end up closer to .025-.030 side clearance, which allows more oil to splash on the cam. Maybe I'm wrong, but something to consider. How does she sound with the roller?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#1552557
12/26/13 11:47 AM
12/26/13 11:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers but you wouldn't believe what I see week in and week out. There are very few reason why cams go bad and I've seen a lot of them done over and over, Spring pressure (some forget to allow for different rocker ratio's, Some people coat the whole lifter with thick break-in lube instead of just the cam and lifter bottoms, coil bind, IMPROPER START-UP, wrong oil, and a few more. I watch people crank and crank and crank a fresh build probably more than anything some with-out even priming the engine first.
You know, with all the problems people seem to have breaking in their cams, someone smart should offer the service of breaking in cams under controlled conditions. There could be mules of popular engines. The cam could be spun by an electric motor while in an oil bath. The lifters could be loaded with an ideal spring pressure. I could see charging $100 for a service like this, and some people would be happy to pay it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGjIIinVDYw
someone is providing that service.
Interesting video. Thanks. Couple things; Don't know how they measured spring pressure ( or if they did?). Noticed the lifters went in a box when they were done, but not to the lobe that they were spun on. Of course, the tool is not an exact replica of the engine that the cam and lifters will be installed on, which I have some issues with regarding just how beneficial it is. Lube issues ( which I believe was the OP's problem )as a problem were eliminated though - at least on break-in.
Fastest 300
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: 70Drop]
#1552558
12/26/13 12:51 PM
12/26/13 12:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
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Quote:
Quote:
I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers but you wouldn't believe what I see week in and week out. There are very few reason why cams go bad and I've seen a lot of them done over and over, Spring pressure (some forget to allow for different rocker ratio's, Some people coat the whole lifter with thick break-in lube instead of just the cam and lifter bottoms, coil bind, IMPROPER START-UP, wrong oil, and a few more. I watch people crank and crank and crank a fresh build probably more than anything some with-out even priming the engine first.
You know, with all the problems people seem to have breaking in their cams, someone smart should offer the service of breaking in cams under controlled conditions. There could be mules of popular engines. The cam could be spun by an electric motor while in an oil bath. The lifters could be loaded with an ideal spring pressure. I could see charging $100 for a service like this, and some people would be happy to pay it.
I talked to Jim Dowel owner of Racer Brown cams about cam and lifter failures and inter-changing cams and he recommended against it. He said every block cast has small changes in them from one to the other so even if the cam and lifter were broken in properly and kept matched IF you install it in another engine start with new lifter again. This of course is for any solid or hydraulic cam.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#1552559
12/26/13 02:23 PM
12/26/13 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers but you wouldn't believe what I see week in and week out. There are very few reason why cams go bad and I've seen a lot of them done over and over, Spring pressure (some forget to allow for different rocker ratio's, Some people coat the whole lifter with thick break-in lube instead of just the cam and lifter bottoms, coil bind, IMPROPER START-UP, wrong oil, and a few more. I watch people crank and crank and crank a fresh build probably more than anything some with-out even priming the engine first.
You know, with all the problems people seem to have breaking in their cams, someone smart should offer the service of breaking in cams under controlled conditions. There could be mules of popular engines. The cam could be spun by an electric motor while in an oil bath. The lifters could be loaded with an ideal spring pressure. I could see charging $100 for a service like this, and some people would be happy to pay it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGjIIinVDYw
someone is providing that service.
I wonder what the warranty is and who is the warrantier ?
How do they duplicate the geometry of the engine block the cam is being installed in? And as someone mentioned it appears the worker is just throwing them in a box , is the box labeled ?
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Re: Hard-to-detect flat-tappet cam failure
[Re: JohnRR]
#1552560
12/26/13 03:02 PM
12/26/13 03:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
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In the video they mention that the lifters are marked for location. He must mark them before break-in because I didn't see him do it. That would make the most seance thou.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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