Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: 7812845]
#1520217
10/21/13 03:29 AM
10/21/13 03:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
I've had the rivets for quite a while, not a problem and I didn't pay $65 for them, must have got them before they became like gold.
btw.. I'm keeping the old dash frame in case there's ever a question. It's pretty obvious that the tornado made it useless.
Without a VIN attached to it how will you prove what it was ?? And seriously ... why bother ???
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: BDW]
#1520220
10/21/13 11:37 AM
10/21/13 11:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
Sounds like the only "right" thing to do at this point is to get a salvaged title for the car.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: rowin4]
#1520221
10/21/13 03:05 PM
10/21/13 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,366 PA
70HemiGTX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,366
PA
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Quote:
Just make sure you rivet the plate on in the right direction.
I saw an E body with it's vin tag upsidedown from the factory. Many, many years ago. It was never messed with.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: superwrench]
#1520222
10/21/13 06:59 PM
10/21/13 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,625 Millinocket, Maine
JonC
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,625
Millinocket, Maine
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Quote:
I know there are "purists" on this board, but in a case like yours, I would think that the reason you have mentioned should be enough for any normal person. I had to change out my dash frame on my '68 GTX...reason?...'cause the other one had been hacked up by the radio. I could have probably fixed it because it's hidden, but the replacement frame was so clean that I couldn't resist painting it up and using it. I didn't "document" anything....Whoever ends up buying it after me will just have to believe my story as to why the Rosette rivets have been changed. OK...now I'm ready for the verbal abuse...!!! LOL
I did something similar, I sent my dash in for new pad and didn't want to take a chance on losing the tag. I used regular rivets to put it back on. To me it's no big deal as the other numbers on the car correspond to the tag.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Supercuda]
#1520228
10/21/13 09:51 PM
10/21/13 09:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295
Here
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"(3) In all prosecutions under this section, possession by a person of a motor vehicle or of a mechanical device with the manufacturer's serial number or the engine or motor number removed, defaced, destroyed or altered or with a part bearing the number or numbers replaced by one on which the proper number does not appear, shall be prima facie evidence of violation of this section. "
Reads to me swapping an engine with another engine with different engine SN is technically a violation
"(4) If the identification of a motor vehicle or a mechanical device has been removed, defaced, or altered as provided in this section and the real identity of the motor vehicle or mechanical device cannot be determined, the motor vehicle or mechanical device shall be subject to confiscation by the state and shall be sold at public auction, put to official use by the government agency seizing the vehicle, or rendered scrap. If the items are confiscated from a licensed vehicle dealer, the dealer's license shall be revoked."
The key wording here is, how do you establish legally "real identity" if part is a number bearing part, has been removed?
"(5) A person shall not knowingly possess, buy, deliver, or offer to buy, sell, exchange, or give away any manufacturer's vehicle identification number plate, federal safety certification label, antitheft label, posident die stamps, secretary of state vehicle identification label, rosette rivet, or any facsimile thereof. This subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle manufacturer, a motor vehicle parts supplier under contract with a motor vehicle manufacturer, or a law enforcement officer in the official performance of his or her duties or to a motor vehicle in which a manufacturer's vehicle identification plate and each of the applicable labels listed in this subsection have been installed as prescribed by law. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years, a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both. If the person who violates this subsection is a licensed dealer or repair facility, its license shall be revoked."
Self explanatory, don't be caught with a VIN dash pad, rossett rivets, etc
"(6) A person shall not buy, receive, or obtain control of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with the intent to sell or otherwise dispose of the motor vehicle or motor vehicle part knowing that an identification number of that motor vehicle or motor vehicle part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered. This subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle obtained from or at the direction of a law enforcement agency. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years, a fine of not more than $20,000.00, or both."
Don't let seller explain how he restored car by reattaching vin plate, etc
Confiscation by the enforcing department for their own department use in Mi is the most worrisome detail IMO, ie it provides significant incentive to interpret the rules to their benefit.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Supercuda]
#1520230
10/21/13 11:37 PM
10/21/13 11:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,521 Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,521
Western Colorado High Desert
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"the motor vehicle or mechanical device shall be subject to confiscation by the state and shall be sold at public auction" So they take your car and then sell to some other poor sap?
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1520232
10/23/13 12:28 AM
10/23/13 12:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
To all who may have visions of changing a tag in the future for any reason,first just do it,second,don't post it on Moparts or any other forum !
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: JohnRR]
#1520233
10/23/13 01:06 AM
10/23/13 01:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 228 Myrtle Beach
Boot
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 228
Myrtle Beach
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Just an FYI, I was reading on another forum that now some of the collector car insurance companies are checking VINs and rivets now, as a means to deny a claim. Some are even checking engine #s against body numbers, and without CLEAR documentation as to where the donor came from, they can actually legally deny. They enter into contracts with the legal assumption that a collector or classic or special interest car is numbers matching, as it should be according to law. Be careful with numbers, and be sure to clearly document everything.
To the OP, I would take several pics of the damaged frame with vin attached before transferring to the new frame, and use the correct rivets just to be safe.
47 chopped Plymouth Sedan 340/727
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Boot]
#1520235
10/23/13 10:44 AM
10/23/13 10:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295
Here
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Quote:
Just an FYI, I was reading on another forum that now some of the collector car insurance companies are checking VINs and rivets now, as a means to deny a claim. Some are even checking engine #s against body numbers, and without CLEAR documentation as to where the donor came from, they can actually legally deny. They enter into contracts with the legal assumption that a collector or classic or special interest car is numbers matching, as it should be according to law. Be careful with numbers, and be sure to clearly document everything.
To the OP, I would take several pics of the damaged frame with vin attached before transferring to the new frame, and use the correct rivets just to be safe.
It figures. And likely after accepting years of premiums without any concern. Would a fix be to request/require insurance company to accept the vehicle with an inspection (inspect and photograph all the rivets they want) as to what exactly they are covering and be bound to it, before a claim and misunderstandings arise?
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1520236
10/23/13 10:53 AM
10/23/13 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,010 Alberta, Canada
krisiesmopes
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,010
Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Yep: Buy the rivets, change it, be happy. 10 million E-body owners can't be wrong.
Sheldon
This made me laugh.
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