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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: 1fastabody]
#1519538
10/24/13 11:02 AM
10/24/13 11:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,443
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,443
NW Chicago suburban area
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As good as the swap to a Borgeson box may sound, one thing to consider, for those who care, is that most sanctioned club rules (say, for autocross competition having guidelines of rules), will not allow this swap within certain classes/categories, or else, the swap will end up bumping your car into another class/category.. then.. you have an entire new set of rules to comply with and try to remain competitive with the balance of the class. This swap would not be legal in the SCCA Solo class/category of E/Street Prepared... and it would be questionably legal in the Street-Mod class/category... but certainly OK in the C/Prepared all-out race class/category. Another club that I'm becoming active in, for hi-speed road-course autocross events/championship series (www.mcscc.org) doesn't allow this type of swap in the class that I plan to run. In other words, as I've always advised, be ready to accept the consequences. I believe this is a great weight reducer as its prime advantage, and installing the box with the fast-ratio arms would make a huge difference compared to a ps box without the fast-ratio arms, especially for running through tight pylon autocross events. My current T/A ps box, having the correct pitman and longer idler arms, AND with the Saginaw pump, plus with a reduced diameter steering wheel (mine is 11.5" diameter.. not really too small).. all combines to react very quickly through pylon manuevers, as well as on street/hwy/and road courses. Granted, the heavier weight of the original T/A ps box is there, but that's something that, according to the club "rules"... has to be accepted. 
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: 1fastabody]
#1519539
10/24/13 08:01 PM
10/24/13 08:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
BergmanAutoCraft
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
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Quote:
Bergman,
Maybe you can chime in on this, Is there any advantage to going to the larger pitman shaft box?
I don't think there is any appreciable different among the 2. It comes down to what you have to start with. If its an A body they have different pitman/idler/centerlink fir each respective box.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: 1fastabody]
#1519540
10/24/13 10:27 PM
10/24/13 10:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Bergman,
Maybe you can chime in on this, Is there any advantage to going to the larger pitman shaft box?
the boxes are the same price, but I did notice that if your buying the stock ratio pitman and idler arms, the price for the smaller arms are about double than the ones for the bigger shaft.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: dangina]
#1519541
10/24/13 11:35 PM
10/24/13 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
Bergman,
Maybe you can chime in on this, Is there any advantage to going to the larger pitman shaft box?
the boxes are the same price, but I did notice that if your buying the stock ratio pitman and idler arms, the price for the smaller arms are about double than the ones for the bigger shaft.
 Yes. The bigger spines are cheaper.
The bigger shaft starts in 1973 and the aftermarket is more likely to carry and have better prices on parts for the newer cars.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: 71rm23]
#1519544
11/01/13 09:01 PM
11/01/13 09:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Here ya go
the diagram should show where you have to do some clearancing with a die grinder on the box lol
did they ever fix that issue yet?
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: cjskotni]
#1519546
01/22/14 03:40 PM
01/22/14 03:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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No it does not, Bergmann above sells everything needed for a bolt in swap.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: dickdale]
#1519548
01/22/14 08:53 PM
01/22/14 08:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 706
USA
rftroy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 706
USA
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Quote:
Quote:
How much lighter is the Borgeson over the factory unit ?
Borgeson weighs 22 pounds... Stock, anyone?
Just weighed the power steering box from my 70 Roadrunner - accurate shipping scale.
With no pitman arm, hoses, or input shaft coupler:
34lb-10.5oz.
Robert
AAR 4-speed 3.91, Tor-Red;
70 440 6 pack Roadrunner 4-speed 3.54, Plum Crazy;
68 Formula S conv 383 4-speed 3.23, Electric Blue;
69 Barracuda conv Slant 6 OD4 2.94, 71 B5 Blue;
78 Lil' Red Truck, Red;
70 Challenger S/E. 505 6 pack, Passon 5-speed, 3.55, B7 Blue
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: cjskotni]
#1519549
01/22/14 10:34 PM
01/22/14 10:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Does this box require cutting the steering column? I'd be interested in going this route but I am hesitant to butcher my column...
You do if u have a manual column
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: goldduster318]
#1519550
01/22/14 10:37 PM
01/22/14 10:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Here's a photo of the Bergman adapters installed in my A-body. This is with the stock PS pressure line
So stock lines now hook up to the box? I thought u needed adapters
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: challenger70]
#1519553
01/23/14 12:45 PM
01/23/14 12:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,443
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,443
NW Chicago suburban area
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The lighter weight of the Borgeson box is a great plus... 10 pounds here, there.. especially off the front end, all adds up towards a better handling modified vehicle. IF this were "legal" in the club racing rules for the specific classes that I choose to run, which, unfortunately it's not for my present classes (SCCA E/SP, and others), I'd be most interested I doing this swap.
The only down-side I see with the Borgeson box is that the steering turns lock-to-lock (3.5?) is greater than the T/A fast-ratio box (2.7)... and fastest steering is what's needed E/Specially in pylon autocrossing.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: challenger70]
#1519554
01/23/14 02:45 PM
01/23/14 02:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 780
Woodinville, WA
Viol8r
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 780
Woodinville, WA
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Quote:
UGHHH! I just got my stage 3 box back from firm feel, and just read the article in Mopar Action about this (I am a lot behind on magazine reading).  Is there a appreciable difference between the FF stage 3 and this box? Lets say you had a freshly rebuilt FF box, would you still do this swap? What does a complete swap run?
We run FF 3 with quick ratio on big tracks and really have no issues at all. I can't imagine the difference is substantial enough to lose sleep over.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1519555
01/23/14 03:23 PM
01/23/14 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
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Quote:
The only down-side I see with the Borgeson box is that the steering turns lock-to-lock (3.5?) is greater than the T/A fast-ratio box (2.7)... and fastest steering is what's needed E/Specially in pylon autocrossing.
Std power steering is 16:1
T/A quick ratio arm makes it 12.7:1
The Borgeson is 14:1 Which is little quicker than splitting the difference.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1519556
01/24/14 12:28 AM
01/24/14 12:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
I ordered a new hose-kit from Borgeson to replace the older and hardened hoses on the car. The kit comes with hoses AND adapters.
The Borg hose-kit (which I bought) only worked with a saginaw pump. I changed over from a Federal pump to the Saginaw, which I had laying around anyway.
thanks for the pic, I gotta check the ones I got, I asked boregson for some lines without using adapters that, ones that bolt to the saginaw pump and their box and they sent me a set, put on the front it says for a late mustang? I haven't gotten around to installing it yet..
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