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Re: msd ignition woes [Re: sshemi] #1511278
03/26/14 07:47 PM
03/26/14 07:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
S
sshemi Offline
top fuel
sshemi  Offline
top fuel
S

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
Hey im the 100th poster of this topic!
Do i win another digital 6 that doesnt work?

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511279
03/27/14 12:19 AM
03/27/14 12:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,107
Massillon, Ohio
C
cudatom Offline
super stock
cudatom  Offline
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C

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,107
Massillon, Ohio
Quote:

oh, and the guy from MSD just told me that i CANNOT run the blaster coil horizontally. it must be run vertically, or there isn't enough oil to cover the windings, and it will heat up and break down.

from the coil instructions from MSD:

It is recommended to mount the PN 8202 and 8223 coils in an upright position. The High Vibration Coil, PN 8222, can be mounted in any position due to its epoxy potting compound.



Been running the same Blaster coil for 20 yrs and has always been horizontal, never had an issue.


Ok
Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511280
03/27/14 03:47 PM
03/27/14 03:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
racerhog Offline
mopar
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Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
Recurve a known good dist.... Get a good MSD Box..


Bob(Cowboy)Hogan
Monrovia So-Cal
Re: msd ignition woes [Re: racerhog] #1511281
03/27/14 04:27 PM
03/27/14 04:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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camastomcat Offline
top fuel
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Salt Lake City
Here's a stupid question, and perhaps it's already been answered.....do you have the MSD tester?

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: camastomcat] #1511282
03/27/14 04:59 PM
03/27/14 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,729
Portage,michigan
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B3422W5 Offline
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Portage,michigan
Been reading this post with interest...from my days as a field engineer for a computer maker it perked my interest.

Low resistance of the plug wires shouldn't be a factor, good or bad, assuming the wires are shielded, which most any wires on the market are.

Resistance is defined as r = E over I...e voltage, I is current. You( in a perfect world) want as little drop in voltage and current to where they are used, as possible. The more resistance a given foot of wire has, the more voltage and current it takes to overcome it, thus reducing effectiveness. Look at a plug wire as a drain in a sink. If the drain is perfectly clear, it will dispose of the most water. If it gets clogged up with hair, etc less water will pass through the drain.
Plug wire is the same way, less resistance, more voltage and current get through, more resistance less voltage and current.
That all said, a few ohms difference( the reading of resistance) in a given foot of plug wire isn't going to make a hill of beans difference in performance Its just a sales tool to sell wire..10 ohms or 100 ohms per foot, both are still way overkill. Msd stuff puts out a TON of juice
My guess is the digital box you are using is picking up some kind of unshielded interference.
My first thought would be to put the digital 6 on the fenderwell away from everything and try it. I had a digital 6 in my Duster that replaced a bad 6al box, never a peep out of it..was installed circa 2005-2006, and is still in the car today( I no longer own it)
In short, move the box away from possible interference and try it, I suspect the issue will go away. just my thought..


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Re: msd ignition woes [Re: camastomcat] #1511283
03/27/14 05:47 PM
03/27/14 05:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
Quote:

Here's a stupid question, and perhaps it's already been answered.....do you have the MSD tester?




didn't know there was a tester? where do i find one?

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: B3422W5] #1511284
03/27/14 05:50 PM
03/27/14 05:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,931
P
Paul_Fancsali Offline
master
Paul_Fancsali  Offline
master
P

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,931
Said this before Take the MSD and walk over to the trash can and dispose. Now get your point dist go buy a pertronix and install and I'll bet problem solved No you won't have a rev limiter but how often do you race the car? I know there are a lot of guy's getting rich because everyone has to have what some one else has in their car and they will go faster WRONG. I stick to pertronix or good old Kettering Points

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: B3422W5] #1511285
03/27/14 05:51 PM
03/27/14 05:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
Quote:

Been reading this post with interest...from my days as a field engineer for a computer maker it perked my interest.

Low resistance of the plug wires shouldn't be a factor, good or bad, assuming the wires are shielded, which most any wires on the market are.

Resistance is defined as r = E over I...e voltage, I is current. You( in a perfect world) want as little drop in voltage and current to where they are used, as possible. The more resistance a given foot of wire has, the more voltage and current it takes to overcome it, thus reducing effectiveness. Look at a plug wire as a drain in a sink. If the drain is perfectly clear, it will dispose of the most water. If it gets clogged up with hair, etc less water will pass through the drain.
Plug wire is the same way, less resistance, more voltage and current get through, more resistance less voltage and current.
That all said, a few ohms difference( the reading of resistance) in a given foot of plug wire isn't going to make a hill of beans difference in performance Its just a sales tool to sell wire..10 ohms or 100 ohms per foot, both are still way overkill. Msd stuff puts out a TON of juice
My guess is the digital box you are using is picking up some kind of unshielded interference.
My first thought would be to put the digital 6 on the fenderwell away from everything and try it. I had a digital 6 in my Duster that replaced a bad 6al box, never a peep out of it..was installed circa 2005-2006, and is still in the car today( I no longer own it)
In short, move the box away from possible interference and try it, I suspect the issue will go away. just my thought..




well, our theory is that those low resistance wires are putting out enough RF to disturb the box.

i agree that it is not specifically the box, but something on my car, as i had the same behavior with FireCore's ignition box. but what it is has eluded me so far.

i am going to go through and check the connections at the firewall, will take care of that first. possible that a spotty connection isn't putting out a full signal, confusing things.

but it is very, very interesting to note that the only two things that have made a difference have both been related to resistance in the system: resistor plugs and a higher resistance spark plug wire.

next step is to rig a quick harness and put the box well inside the passenger compartment. as i said, if that doesn't take care of it, i give up, and am going to points.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511286
03/27/14 07:11 PM
03/27/14 07:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,685
South San Francisco, Ca
70sixpkrt Offline
master
70sixpkrt  Offline
master

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Posts: 3,685
South San Francisco, Ca
Quote:

didn't know there was a tester? where do i find one?



I had a problem with my MSD 2 years ago and brought mine to Gotelli Speed Shop. They had a tester there. Found out my MSD was good. Different problem than yours. I think any speed shop would have a tester.


[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: msd ignition woes [Re: Paul_Fancsali] #1511287
03/27/14 08:55 PM
03/27/14 08:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Chris'sBarracuda Offline
master
Chris'sBarracuda  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Quote:

Said this before Take the MSD and walk over to the trash can and dispose.







This..^^^^^^^^^




Chris..

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: Chris'sBarracuda] #1511288
03/27/14 11:56 PM
03/27/14 11:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,883
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,883
MI, usa
I use shielded wire for both my pick-up and coil harness. It has braid around the two wires (which are also twisted) that can be grounded to the box. PM me what lengths you need and I'll send you some.
Doug

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: Chris'sBarracuda] #1511289
03/28/14 02:39 PM
03/28/14 02:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
Quote:

Quote:

Said this before Take the MSD and walk over to the trash can and dispose.







This..^^^^^^^^^




Chris..




chris, not far from that, and probably would have done it a while ago except for the fact that the firecore box did the same thing. so it's more something specific to the car than the box.

but if relocating the box to the passenger compartment doesn't work, then that is probably what will happen!

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511290
05/13/14 04:32 PM
05/13/14 04:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

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Posts: 4,179
California
well, just to keep this thread alive. one more test to go. i just made a 10 ft wire harness extension so i can put the MSD box in the passenger compartment as a test. hopefully i'll get to that soon, (most of the time i'd rather drive the car than work on things that don't affect driving it…).

this is it. if this doesn't solve the problem, i'm chucking the entire system and going with something new. haven't figured out what that is yet, but the best that car has ever run was with a 40 year old dual point distributor and an $18 napa coil, so that just may be it.

will post as soon as i have something...

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511291
05/13/14 04:41 PM
05/13/14 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,685
South San Francisco, Ca
70sixpkrt Offline
master
70sixpkrt  Offline
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Posts: 3,685
South San Francisco, Ca
Mick I have mine bolted on the side of the radiator support for the last 10 yrs with no problems. My other buddy has it in the same spot with no problems.

8143442-MSD6AL.jpg (539 downloads)

[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: msd ignition woes [Re: 70sixpkrt] #1511292
05/13/14 05:44 PM
05/13/14 05:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

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California
Quote:

Mick I have mine bolted on the side of the radiator support for the last 10 yrs with no problems. My other buddy has it in the same spot with no problems.




it's one of those bizarre things. the only thing i can say so far is that the box is affected by the RF running around under my hood. i have the box mounted under the battery at the moment. i'm thinking that with my situation, that will still be too close to all of it, but who knows?

i'm going to try the passenger compartment, and if that does it, done. that's where it will go. if not, another type of system is in order.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511293
05/13/14 05:46 PM
05/13/14 05:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,402
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Posts: 13,402
Marion, South Carolina [><]
mickm...yours is digital, his is not. The digital boxes are very sensitive to RF interference.


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Re: msd ignition woes [Re: an8sec70cuda] #1511294
05/13/14 05:55 PM
05/13/14 05:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
Quote:

mickm...yours is digital, his is not. The digital boxes are very sensitive to RF interference.




yeah, just saw that. good catch.

well, on with the plan! in the passenger compartment it goes!

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511295
06/19/14 04:48 PM
06/19/14 04:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
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California
so about to put an end to all this nonsense.

with the box in the engine compartment and the rev limiter set to 6100, the engine started to miss above 4k and was a mess by 5500 or so. usual, nothing new here.

made an extension and moved the box to the passenger compartment, and no miss at all, but did rev limit at around 5500.

now although i did a simple check on the tach earlier, i don't know that the tach is truly accurate.

so, this weekend i'm moving the box to the engine compartment, and once that is done i'll have a known good auto meter tach temporarily installed to see how accurate my tach is. once i know that, i'll go from there.

damn this has been a long, ugly one… the bad part about it is that through all this i didn't really learn anything in particular, just a long, frustrating haul...

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511296
06/19/14 07:09 PM
06/19/14 07:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
Hopefully that will be it. You need closure..:)


Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511297
06/19/14 07:24 PM
06/19/14 07:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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State of confusion
Quote:

so about to put an end to all this nonsense.

with the box in the engine compartment and the rev limiter set to 6100, the engine started to miss above 4k and was a mess by 5500 or so. usual, nothing new here.

made an extension and moved the box to the passenger compartment, and no miss at all, but did rev limit at around 5500.

now although i did a simple check on the tach earlier, i don't know that the tach is truly accurate.

so, this weekend i'm moving the box to the engine compartment, and once that is done i'll have a known good auto meter tach temporarily installed to see how accurate my tach is. once i know that, i'll go from there.

damn this has been a long, ugly one… the bad part about it is that through all this i didn't really learn anything in particular, just a long, frustrating haul...




Electrical can be a brain exerciser for sure but you`re gettin stuff done and hopefully you`ll figure it out. I still have the same MSD-6 box and coil from many years ago and always mounted in the car and zero issues.............good luck.

Last edited by Thumperdart; 06/19/14 07:24 PM.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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