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Re: msd ignition woes [Re: GTX MATT] #1511198
10/02/13 02:21 PM
10/02/13 02:21 PM
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Indiana
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YO7_A66 Offline
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BPR6ES would be the direct resistor replacement for your existing BP6ES plugs.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...65-p#fragment-2


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: msd ignition woes [Re: YO7_A66] #1511199
10/02/13 02:30 PM
10/02/13 02:30 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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ok, good, thanks!

will get those plugs in as soon as i can...

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511200
10/02/13 02:56 PM
10/02/13 02:56 PM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Probably beating a dead horse here but is it wired EXACTLY as per MSD instructions? The big red and black wires DIRECTLY to the battery? Don't ask me why it matters but it does. Make sure the pick up wire from the dist to the box isn't running close to any plug wires. The further the box is from the distributor the more this wire can act like an antenna for RFI and digital anything is VERY sensitive to this.

Check all your grounds. Make sure that the engine and wherever you have the box mounted share a common ground. Not sure? Run a ground wire from the engine to the box if you have to. Digital equipment and ground differentials do not play well together. .5 volt difference on a 12v system usually not an issue. .5v on a 1 or 5v system which is typical in digital stuff can wreak havoc.

Kevin

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: Twostick] #1511201
10/02/13 03:15 PM
10/02/13 03:15 PM
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sweden
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sshemi Offline
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- isolated the wires to the distributor from the MSD box

Exactly how did you do this?

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: sshemi] #1511202
10/02/13 03:48 PM
10/02/13 03:48 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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Quote:

- isolated the wires to the distributor from the MSD box

Exactly how did you do this?




to answer the last two posts, we took an existing MSD harness and completely wired it up, bypassing every single wire on the car having to do with the MSD box. power and ground went straight to the battery, all wires were routed through the front of the grill to avoid every possible contact with any existing wire whatsoever.

not sure how much more isolated it could be.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: sshemi] #1511203
10/02/13 03:50 PM
10/02/13 03:50 PM
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dogdays Offline
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You can check out if it's RFI by eliminating the electronic pickup. Trigger the box with a point-type distributor using the white wire. I bet your problem disappears immediately.

Then you can figure out where the RFI or EMI is coming from.

R.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511204
10/02/13 03:52 PM
10/02/13 03:52 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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ok, latest.

- dual point distributor.
- napa replacement coil.
- MSD box powering the system, i.e. white wire from the MSD box to the lead on the distributor, coil wires from the MSD box hooked up to the coil.

we have our raped ape back again, except that the rev limiter is set at 6500, and it seems to kick in about 6100, which was what i saw when i first put the box in, (with the electronic ignition and MSD coil, and in neutral).

so, i'm not sure what that points to exactly.

next step:

- try the MSD coil.
- if it doesn't work, try it vertically mounted instead of horizontally mounted, just to be sure.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: dogdays] #1511205
10/02/13 03:53 PM
10/02/13 03:53 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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Quote:

You can check out if it's RFI by eliminating the electronic pickup. Trigger the box with a point-type distributor using the white wire. I bet your problem disappears immediately.

Then you can figure out where the RFI or EMI is coming from.

R.




ok, you answered the question of my latest post before i posted it.

so how do i figure that out?

first step looks to be resistor plugs. what after that?

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511206
10/02/13 04:25 PM
10/02/13 04:25 PM
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sweden
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sshemi Offline
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Sheilded wires to the dist.
Thats what solved my problems.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511207
10/02/13 04:28 PM
10/02/13 04:28 PM
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CT
GTX MATT Offline
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Quote:

ok, latest.

- dual point distributor.
- napa replacement coil.
- MSD box powering the system, i.e. white wire from the MSD box to the lead on the distributor, coil wires from the MSD box hooked up to the coil.

we have our raped ape back again, except that the rev limiter is set at 6500, and it seems to kick in about 6100, which was what i saw when i first put the box in, (with the electronic ignition and MSD coil, and in neutral).

so, i'm not sure what that points to exactly.

next step:

- try the MSD coil.
- if it doesn't work, try it vertically mounted instead of horizontally mounted, just to be sure.




Its the plugs


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: msd ignition woes [Re: GTX MATT] #1511208
10/02/13 04:37 PM
10/02/13 04:37 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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ok. i just got off the phone with Pat Collins at TechWest Racing.

he emphasized over and over and over again that i should stop what i'm doing, the problem is not in the car, the problem is in the box. he described the exact problems i'm having, and specified the chips in the box that are the problem, (chips that are not over the counter, and MSD doesn't release).

he said he has migrated many people away from this box, and suggested that if i want to keep the same basic setup, to get the older analog version, the 6ALN.

so at this point i will try a set of resistor plugs, but i'm done. i'm going to do the best i can to get a refund on the latest box i bought from MSD, try and get a 6ALN, and take things from there.

i'll post whenever i have something new.

thanks to everyone for contributing here, the help has been awesome!

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511209
10/02/13 04:49 PM
10/02/13 04:49 PM
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Ambridge, Pa.
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rickraw Offline
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Cudadon asked if ur still using the ballast resistor. Msd say's don't use one. U never mentioned if u have one wired in.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: rickraw] #1511210
10/02/13 04:50 PM
10/02/13 04:50 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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Quote:

Cudadon asked if ur still using the ballast resistor. Msd say's don't use one. U never mentioned if u have one wired in.




sorry, missed that. we have bypassed it.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511211
10/02/13 05:59 PM
10/02/13 05:59 PM
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Posts: 6,654
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
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A shielded cable from as close to the pick-up as you can get all the way to the box might help. I had to do this to get a clean tach signal that my Holley EFI could deal with. We cut the wires as close to the PU as we could and then spliced shielded cable on.

Does your contact know if the chips are faulty or are they just sensitive to the noise from RFI/EMI?

Kevin

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: Twostick] #1511212
10/02/13 06:06 PM
10/02/13 06:06 PM
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communist bloc of new jersey
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jamesc Offline
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i didn't read everything but have you inspected the plug wires?

years ago i did some wiring for a guy, he took the car out and had similar issues. he brings the car over and i start checking over the secondary ignition only to find he had put a solid coil wire on it. i walked into the shop, picked up a 7AL2, turned it over and asked him to read what the sticker said.

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: jamesc] #1511213
10/05/13 08:36 PM
10/05/13 08:36 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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ok, it's conclusive: i have 2 bad MSD boxes.

pat explained that the issue was in the rev limiting chips, that they were wildly inaccurate, causing exactly the problems i'm seeing.

we already had the points distributor back in, and so took it for a ride, and it behaved better, (was hooked to the MSD box), but still wasn't great, cutting out around 6k, where it used to cut out pretty badly around ~5600. finally had the idea to up the rev limiter, and so set it at 8500 or so. took it out and it ran great, well past 6500 and still going strong.

put the mopar electronic distributor and the blaster coil back in, and it ran the same, fantastic.

so it's the box and it's rev limiter circuits.

now i just have to see if i can get a refund for these boxes...

Last edited by mickm; 10/05/13 08:51 PM.
Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511214
11/29/13 03:32 PM
11/29/13 03:32 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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well, received my 4th msd digital 6al box today. i did speak for a while with the tech there, and he seemed like he was really trying to reproduce this, (and of course couldn't).

so he tested a new box and sent it to me. hope to get it in this weekend.

anyone a bettor out there? anyone care to lay odds as to whether this one will actually work?

oh, and i now have enough 6al wiring harnesses and hardware to open my own online store. anyone need some wiring, pm me...

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511215
11/29/13 06:31 PM
11/29/13 06:31 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Anytime I have a issue with a MSD box, the FIRST thing
I do is pull ALL of the rev chips out... 99% of the
time the problem goes away... but I also start off with
resistor plugs and wires so it doesnt hurt the box

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1511216
11/29/13 06:55 PM
11/29/13 06:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
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Quote:

Anytime I have a issue with a MSD box, the FIRST thing
I do is pull ALL of the rev chips out... 99% of the
time the problem goes away... but I also start off with
resistor plugs and wires so it doesnt hurt the box





you mean you physically open the box and pull the chips out? that is one of the reasons i want the box, is for the rev limiter.

my last box worked, if i set the limiter to about 7800. doesn't do me much good up there though, that's not going to help me on a missed shift...

Re: msd ignition woes [Re: mickm] #1511217
11/29/13 07:39 PM
11/29/13 07:39 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Anytime I have a issue with a MSD box, the FIRST thing
I do is pull ALL of the rev chips out... 99% of the
time the problem goes away... but I also start off with
resistor plugs and wires so it doesnt hurt the box





you mean you physically open the box and pull the chips out? that is one of the reasons i want the box, is for the rev limiter.

my last box worked, if i set the limiter to about 7800. doesn't do me much good up there though, that's not going to help me on a missed shift...




No I dont open the box... just plug in a 2 or 3 step
in the port and it by-passes the internal limiter..
then just dont put any chips in the 2 or 3 step box..
at least thats the way on a 7AL

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