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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1511219
11/29/13 08:48 PM
11/29/13 08:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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There are many having ignition issues with the digital ignition boxes and from what I'm hearing they are caused from bad ground and the solution is pretty simple run a wire from the back of one head to the other and them to the negative side of the coil. This grounds the ignition system and Is fixing most of the issues people are having with the digital boxes.
Another thing I'm hearing is that you shouldn't ground anything to the roll cage, I know that doesn't make sense but it goes not ground properly especially in non-chassis cars. Run a ground wire from the battery and don't rely on the cage.
Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987 71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide 68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: mickm]
#1511220
11/29/13 09:39 PM
11/29/13 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 926
MICHIGAN
BB65Barracuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 926
MICHIGAN
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It must be the digital version. Ive used 6AL analog boxes for years in 4 different cars. The only time I ever had a problem it was me not the box! I had the pick up wire backwards one time and the other time it was the distributor.  If MSD has sent you 4 bad boxes perhaps its not the box that is your problem.  Hope you get it worked out. 
1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1511221
11/30/13 03:54 AM
11/30/13 03:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Nope, not with the resistor plugs. You will have the same issue. 
you mean without the resistor plugs?
i have some, i will give it a try...
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: mickm]
#1511224
11/30/13 09:39 AM
11/30/13 09:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,091
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,091
Niles , Ohio
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That rotor looks like crap.Looks like its burning and corroded.Id change it for the cost.GM had a big problem with the HEI setups.They would burn thru the rotor.The high voltages made them go bad.I replaced a ton at work.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: therocks]
#1511225
11/30/13 09:47 AM
11/30/13 09:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
That rotor looks like crap.Looks like its burning and corroded.Id change it for the cost.GM had a big problem with the HEI setups.They would burn thru the rotor.The high voltages made them go bad.I replaced a ton at work.Rocky
Yeah.. if they look like that, usually the carbon
ball in the cap is gone
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1511226
11/30/13 02:14 PM
11/30/13 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Quote:
That rotor looks like crap.Looks like its burning and corroded.Id change it for the cost.GM had a big problem with the HEI setups.They would burn thru the rotor.The high voltages made them go bad.I replaced a ton at work.Rocky
Yeah.. if they look like that, usually the carbon
ball in the cap is gone
so where do i get a decent cap and rotor these days?
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: mickm]
#1511227
11/30/13 02:51 PM
11/30/13 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That rotor looks like crap.Looks like its burning and corroded.Id change it for the cost.GM had a big problem with the HEI setups.They would burn thru the rotor.The high voltages made them go bad.I replaced a ton at work.Rocky
Yeah.. if they look like that, usually the carbon
ball in the cap is gone
so where do i get a decent cap and rotor these days?
I use either the MP cap or MSD(I have 2 different
dist).... try a Firecore cap and rotor... Rich makes
some nice stuff.. my next small cap will be his
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1511228
12/15/13 09:26 PM
12/15/13 09:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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so, the latest.
i have a new box from MSD, and put it in with it set at 6300, and the same behavior. would not go about about 5700 or so. note this isn't the rev limit behavior, in that the rpm fluctuates a few hundred rpm, and it is missing badly.
moved the rev limit up to about 7300 or so, and it would go beyond 6k, just as before.
so i put resistor plugs in, (hats off to GTX MATT), and the missing was gone. it now stops normally at the rev limit, except that the limit seems to be 1000 rpm off. i had it set at 6300, and it was rev limiting at about 52-5300. upped the limit to 6500, and it climbed a bit, then 6800, and it climbed some more. set the rev limit at 7100, and it now seems to limit at 6100 on the tach consistently.
a while back i tested my tach against a sun tach/timing light, and my tach showed 2 or 300 lower than the sun tach, (i forget which), so i'm relatively sure that these numbers are close.
so. now it seems to run, but do i trust that the box will always hold the rev limit down at that limit, or will it let loose some time and let the engine spin to 7000+?
the resistor plugs seems to have solved the issue of it missing, but now i have the rev limiter issue.
i really don't know what else to do except leave it as it is or get the 6ALN box as i was advised to by the guy i talked to (see earlier post in this thread).
ideas, comments?
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: mickm]
#1511229
12/15/13 10:30 PM
12/15/13 10:30 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
lilcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
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I'm coming to the party a little late, but I'll give you my input. I have a friend who is an electrical engineer. He worked for Dynatek ignition about 20 years ago. They started out just doing drag bike ignitions, but have since branched out. Anyway, their major competition was MSD. He told me that MSD rev limiters were very "rough"for lack of a better term. The RPM would vary on the limiter by 500 or more RPM. The Dynatek stuff would be more like 100 or so RPM on the limiter. He made me a one-off limiter for my Barracuda since they didn't make one for V8s back then. They do now. Check it out here: http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/products/accessories/Dyna_RPM_Limiters/When it kicks in, it is very smooth and the car just falls on its face. I would look into one. Lee
'67 is an abbreviation of 1967
67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet
They are not interchangeable.
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: lilcuda]
#1511230
12/15/13 11:23 PM
12/15/13 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
I'm coming to the party a little late, but I'll give you my input. I have a friend who is an electrical engineer...
well, to fill you in quickly, i have had nothing but issues with the box since i got it, and i'm on my 4th box. i contacted someone who rebuilds and fixes MSD boxes (not associated with MSD), and after i got about 1 minute into my situation, he told me to stop everything, there is absolutely nothing wrong with my car, it's the box. the 6AL digital boxes, he said, are known to have these issues with the rev limiters.
i don't feel good trusting my engine to this, so i will probably either get one of these dynatek limiters or go for the 6ALN, which is what this guy recommended.
so far this seems to be limiting the rpm at exactly the same place each time, but i've only done a few trials. so it seems that MSD can get the limiter reasonably close, at least. but it seems there may be some completely off the wall scenario with my car, (which i haven't ruled out), as it's hard to believe that 4 boxes have all been bad, (although the first two were displaying completely different characteristics, and were entirely unusable).
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: mickm]
#1511231
12/15/13 11:57 PM
12/15/13 11:57 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You may have hurt the rev chips you have been playing with... try some that havent been in the box while its been missing, all they are is a resistor
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1511232
12/16/13 01:43 AM
12/16/13 01:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
You may have hurt the rev chips you have been playing
with... try some that havent been in the box while
its been missing, all they are is a resistor
in the digital 6, the chips are integrated into the box, and are proprietary.
you set the limit by two rotary dials on the outside of the box.
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: mickm]
#1511233
12/16/13 01:48 AM
12/16/13 01:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
You may have hurt the rev chips you have been playing
with... try some that havent been in the box while
its been missing, all they are is a resistor
in the digital 6, the chips are integrated into the box, and are proprietary.
you set the limit by two rotary dials on the outside of the box.
I forgot you have a digital
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: hvyweight]
#1511236
12/16/13 03:03 AM
12/16/13 03:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
i kinda read through the replies. Did you try to remove the tach out of the senario?
i have seen tachs cause these issues.
Mike
no, haven't disconnected the tach. someone else brought this up, but this seems like a bit of a conundrum. if i don't have a tach, how do i know where it is cutting out?
it seems, so far, that the resistor plugs may have solved the breaking up issue, but i still have the rev limiter issue.
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Re: msd ignition woes
[Re: mickm]
#1511237
12/16/13 05:01 PM
12/16/13 05:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,169
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,169
CT
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Not sure if you want to go this route, but Summit has the 6AL analog boxes on clearance for 170 (maybe leftover stock). At least your miss is gone though 
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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