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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: sattellite_pup]
#1503243
09/19/13 06:15 PM
09/19/13 06:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,325
Truckville, the capital of NY
85_Ram_4speed
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,325
Truckville, the capital of NY
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I personally think you put yourself in a little pickle with the transmission from that 2000 as it is an electronic controlled transmision. The pre-97 (I believe that is the year cut off) are still hydraulic controlled transmissions with lockup and overdrive being the only internal electronincs.
As far as getting the engine wired up, I think someone on Ebay or here was modifying harnesses to work in older applications. Maybe they can shed more light on the later transmission usage too.
As far as getting the engine/trans in the truck, if you have a 93 trans crossmember for a 518 trans, then your all set and it all just drops in on the older D-series motor mounts (360 still needs the correct drivers bracket or washers to take up the space on the one bolt hole). Use a lower hose for a 93 truck and they will slip right on with your radiator and a top hose for your 78 truck. Trim as needed. Later BR-body trucks (94-2001) manifolds or shorty headers--or headers for a D-series truck will bolt right up to the engine and fit fine.
Hope that helps some, I only did a carb'd Magnum motor in my truck so there are other issues to deal with for that. They make excellent power stock and as with all Mopar small blocks, are dependable if cared for.
Outcast Dodge guy.
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: 85_Ram_4speed]
#1503244
09/20/13 01:05 AM
09/20/13 01:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 29
California
sattellite_pup
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 29
California
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Thank you 85_Ram_4speed, I will start looking for one of those cross members. The engine and trans are in the truck, trans being held up by a jack. We are going to swap out all of the wiring from the 2000 into the 78, from headlights to tail lights. Figure it will be the easiest way to fix the problem, put the dash from the 2000 into the truck as well. Also the rear end. Will document and post pics as we progress. Thank you for the info. 
Last edited by sattellite_pup; 09/20/13 01:11 AM.
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: sattellite_pup]
#1503245
09/20/13 01:37 AM
09/20/13 01:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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IIRC your going to find that the 2000 rearend is to wide for the 78...
I am truckless..
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: 340SHORTY]
#1503246
09/22/13 07:53 AM
09/22/13 07:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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why the headaches? you just want the EFI for daily driveability? if this was my truck, I would consider one of 2 options... maybe 3... first, use the 5.9L magnum, swap in the intake with a Magnum carb intake. tell the idiots at the smog station that it's a 1978 360 V8. Do they really crawl all over and under the engine looking for casting dates? from the outside a 1978 360 V8 will look identical to a 2000 360 V8 unless you happen on a smog guy who REALLY knows his mopar stuff. I had someone ask me if this was a 340 small block:   it's a 5.9L magnum, running factory EFI. I went to a shop a couple weeks ago to get the suspension aligned after a spindle swap, and the guys who worked there, and are around cars all day, and who would call themselves "car guys" had no idea what engine it was, and had no idea it was a factory engine. I bet if you put a carb on that 5.9, the smog guys at your shop won't know it's not a 1978 motor. Now, if you're keeping EFI just because you want EFI, then I would run your original transmission and get a 5-spd computer to handle running the engine as a "stand alone" engine controller. (you could also get an early 90s OD trans with electronic lock-up/OD, and use vacuum switches to control the OD/Lock-up, or use manual switches, again, running the engine with a 5-spd computer) Otherwise, I think the easiest thing for you to do would be to swap the 78s cab/body onto the 2000 truck's frame, because to use the 2000's engine, trans, computer, etc then you're going to need all the sensors, wire harness, speed sensor in the rear axle, dash gauges, OBD-II diagnostic plug under the dash, Evap system, Leak detection pump, O2 sensors/cats/exhaust... otherwise the computer will trip OBD-II emissions codes without having all that stuff there talking to the computer.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1503247
09/22/13 11:59 AM
09/22/13 11:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,302
CA, Proprietor; The "PALOMINO"...
dynotune440
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,302
CA, Proprietor; The "PALOMINO"...
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Quote:
why the headaches? you just want the EFI for daily driveability?
if this was my truck, I would consider one of 2 options...
maybe 3...
first, use the 5.9L magnum, swap in the intake with a Magnum carb intake. tell the idiots at the smog station that it's a 1978 360 V8. Do they really crawl all over and under the engine looking for casting dates? from the outside a 1978 360 V8 will look identical to a 2000 360 V8 unless you happen on a smog guy who REALLY knows his mopar stuff.
I had someone ask me if this was a 340 small block:
it's a 5.9L magnum, running factory EFI.
I went to a shop a couple weeks ago to get the suspension aligned after a spindle swap, and the guys who worked there, and are around cars all day, and who would call themselves "car guys" had no idea what engine it was, and had no idea it was a factory engine.
I bet if you put a carb on that 5.9, the smog guys at your shop won't know it's not a 1978 motor.
Now, if you're keeping EFI just because you want EFI, then I would run your original transmission and get a 5-spd computer to handle running the engine as a "stand alone" engine controller. (you could also get an early 90s OD trans with electronic lock-up/OD, and use vacuum switches to control the OD/Lock-up, or use manual switches, again, running the engine with a 5-spd computer)
Otherwise, I think the easiest thing for you to do would be to swap the 78s cab/body onto the 2000 truck's frame, because to use the 2000's engine, trans, computer, etc then you're going to need all the sensors, wire harness, speed sensor in the rear axle, dash gauges, OBD-II diagnostic plug under the dash, Evap system, Leak detection pump, O2 sensors/cats/exhaust... otherwise the computer will trip OBD-II emissions codes without having all that stuff there talking to the computer.
The big problem is that we still have emissions testing on these trucks, and they still need to retain all of their emissions devices that they left the factory with, along with being functional. If he did a magnum engine with a carb on it he would be laughed at when it came to emissions testing.
I personally think he went too new. I like OBDII computer controled cars, but he is going to have to wire in a bunch of stuff(entire harness) to get it to work. He should have gotten a 92 or 93 truck to do the swap....that way it was more of a bolt in setup. 
Dinuba, California, Home of the PALOMINO ranch and 440 truck farm, where dodge trucks have a home. Have Four 1979 dodge PALOMINO trucks now.
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: dynotune440]
#1503248
09/22/13 12:37 PM
09/22/13 12:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
The big problem is that we still have emissions testing on these trucks, and they still need to retain all of their emissions devices that they left the factory with, along with being functional. If he did a magnum engine with a carb on it he would be laughed at when it came to emissions testing.
I understand you have emissions testing still, but I think you missed the point behind what I said.
When you go in for your emissions testing, do they scour the motor to find a casting date? Do they look for a stamping to verify that it's the original engine?
A 1978 truck had a 360 as an original engine option, right? The 5.9 EFI engine can be switched to a carb, and bolted into the 1978 truck using 1978 engine mounts on the LA ears on the Magnum block...
So, how does the guy at the emissions testing station know that it's a 2000 5.9L Magnum motor and not a 1978 360 LA motor?
Shouldn't be that hard to make a carb'd motor meet 1978 standards.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: dynotune440]
#1503251
09/22/13 03:16 PM
09/22/13 03:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,064
Iowa
76dodgeboy
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,064
Iowa
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Quote:
Quote:
Thats why you buy a Crate Magnum. No tb or carb so you get to decide 
You seem to have Idiot "car guys" around you. Motor looks good though 
seriously...
The idiot Car guys was at his statement that the shop thought it was a different motor.
The crate motor was a joke as in ha ha. But on that not what are you suppose to do if your motor blows and you toss in a 72 motor because its what you have available? Do you have to go by engine yr emissions or truck year? If the magnum has better emissions that the stock setup why is that an issue?
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1503252
09/22/13 03:19 PM
09/22/13 03:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,302
CA, Proprietor; The "PALOMINO"...
dynotune440
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,302
CA, Proprietor; The "PALOMINO"...
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Quote:
Quote:
The big problem is that we still have emissions testing on these trucks, and they still need to retain all of their emissions devices that they left the factory with, along with being functional. If he did a magnum engine with a carb on it he would be laughed at when it came to emissions testing.
I understand you have emissions testing still, but I think you missed the point behind what I said.
When you go in for your emissions testing, do they scour the motor to find a casting date? Do they look for a stamping to verify that it's the original engine?
A 1978 truck had a 360 as an original engine option, right? The 5.9 EFI engine can be switched to a carb, and bolted into the 1978 truck using 1978 engine mounts on the LA ears on the Magnum block...
So, how does the guy at the emissions testing station know that it's a 2000 5.9L Magnum motor and not a 1978 360 LA motor?
Shouldn't be that hard to make a carb'd motor meet 1978 standards.
first off..it depends on who you get...but if he is going on an engine change, it will smog to the year of the engine/chassis it came out of.
now, is there such an animal as an EGR spread bore intake for a magnum engine with magnum heads? in 78, we had air injection in the exhaust, and magnum heads dont have provisions for thatf
or California, you can do an engine replacement or engine change. a replacement is when you change within the same engine family..."LA 318", "LA 360"...and utilize engine emissions components from stock configuration. this will still utilize original. emissions standards. if you did an engine change, "RB 440", or a 350 GM engine... you will have to be of the same year or newer, and not degrade emissions standards....replace Cal emissions engine with federal emissions, or install a heavy duty emissions engine in a light duty emissions application.
Dinuba, California, Home of the PALOMINO ranch and 440 truck farm, where dodge trucks have a home. Have Four 1979 dodge PALOMINO trucks now.
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: 76dodgeboy]
#1503254
09/22/13 04:22 PM
09/22/13 04:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
Thats why you buy a Crate Magnum. No tb or carb so you get to decide
You seem to have Idiot "car guys" around you. Motor looks good though
Well, yea, most people working at discount tire shops, quick lube oil change shops, and muffler shops are not known for their intelligence. How many 20-something year olds know the difference between a 440 big block and a 318 small block? Heck, I told the guys how my reverse lock-out on the T56 worked, (step on brake to shift into reverse) and he said "huh... My firebird has a T56 but it doesn't block you from reverse gear" I told him it did, but that it was controlled by the main engine computer snd was based on vehicle speed... Which was not an option on my 98 Dakota since it wasn't a factory transmission.
Now, these guys think of themselves as car guys, but do you really think they could identify original equipment vs looks original on a 30 year old truck?
Now, that said... No, there are no magnum heads with air pump ports, but there where magnums that had EGRs. I'm not familiar with what the emissions check people have at their disposal, books, pictures, etc. since I don't have to deal with that crap here, but do you HAVE to have that junk in there to pass emissions? Or can you tune an engine to pass a sniffer test without the pump, EGR, etc?
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: dynotune440]
#1503255
09/22/13 04:31 PM
09/22/13 04:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
a magnum engine is not a "LA" engine
Right, we know that, but again... Does the guy at the emissions shop who drives a Subaru know that? How many guys walk into auto zone asking for parts for his 'Chevy 350' and when asked 'year, make, model' he replies with 'Dont matter, they're all the same'
But yes, my understanding from forums is that an older engine into a newer vehicle, emissions must meet the standards for model year of the vehicle. A newer engine into an older vehicle must meet emissions standards of the year of the engine.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1503257
09/22/13 05:26 PM
09/22/13 05:26 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,722
Chicagoland
Cooter
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,722
Chicagoland
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Quote:
Quote:
a magnum engine is not a "LA" engine
Right, we know that, but again... Does the guy at the emissions shop who drives a Subaru know that?
He knows what emissions equipment is supposed to be on the truck from the factory. And that equipment doesn't adapt easily to the Magnum engine.
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: Cooter]
#1503258
09/22/13 05:37 PM
09/22/13 05:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,064
Iowa
76dodgeboy
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,064
Iowa
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1503259
09/22/13 07:33 PM
09/22/13 07:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,302
CA, Proprietor; The "PALOMINO"...
dynotune440
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,302
CA, Proprietor; The "PALOMINO"...
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Quote:
Quote:
Thats why you buy a Crate Magnum. No tb or carb so you get to decide
You seem to have Idiot "car guys" around you. Motor looks good though
Well, yea, most people working at discount tire shops, quick lube oil change shops, and muffler shops are not known for their intelligence. How many 20-something year olds know the difference between a 440 big block and a 318 small block? Heck, I told the guys how my reverse lock-out on the T56 worked, (step on brake to shift into reverse) and he said "huh... My firebird has a T56 but it doesn't block you from reverse gear" I told him it did, but that it was controlled by the main engine computer snd was based on vehicle speed... Which was not an option on my 98 Dakota since it wasn't a factory transmission.
Now, these guys think of themselves as car guys, but do you really think they could identify original equipment vs looks original on a 30 year old truck?
Now, that said... No, there are no magnum heads with air pump ports, but there where magnums that had EGRs. I'm not familiar with what the emissions check people have at their disposal, books, pictures, etc. since I don't have to deal with that crap here, but do you HAVE to have that junk in there to pass emissions? Or can you tune an engine to pass a sniffer test without the pump, EGR, etc?
if it came with EGR and a smog pump, it has to be there and function. the state guys come in with those type of vehicles just to issue fines.. yes, there are books with pics of what one should look like.
Dinuba, California, Home of the PALOMINO ranch and 440 truck farm, where dodge trucks have a home. Have Four 1979 dodge PALOMINO trucks now.
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: dynotune440]
#1503261
09/22/13 08:11 PM
09/22/13 08:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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What do these air injection pump ports look like? Any way to adapt them to the magnum heads via machine work? Strictly academic now, as I think we're off topic from what the OP originally asked!  The magnum heads can be drilled/tapped to use the original spread bore, EGR intake. Either do it yourself or Hughes advertises it for around $75 plus shipping. Or order a set of prepped EQ Magnum heads from them that're already drilled for an LA intake. I just think that the LA motors and the Magnum motors are similar enough that it could be done and get it passed the smog guys. One things for certain... I'm glad I don't live in California!!!
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 1978 Dodge 5.9l magnum swap
[Re: sattellite_pup]
#1503263
09/23/13 10:30 AM
09/23/13 10:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,179
Canada
demon
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,179
Canada
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The easiest way to do this would be to buy a running 92-93 pickup and swap the 78 body onto it. In fact you could even leave the 92-93 cab on the frame and just swap on the 78 fenders, hood, doors and box. It is a total bolt on. You can even leave the 92-93 rad support and modify it for the round headlights. The rest will just drop right on. You will have the squared off roof but who will actually notice?
This way you could have it done in a weekend or two In your driveway and no engineering a fuel system etc.
Last edited by demon; 09/23/13 10:32 AM.
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