Hey guys...
Sorry that I've been away. I got called to a job FAAAAR away from home and I'm staying in a Motel. I hope to get back to the car on Friday. One good thing: I usually like to let the RTV set up so the gaskets dont slip out of position during installation, and I'm sure that by Friday, the valve cover gaskets will be secure!
I have an email to Don at FBO. I'm sure that there are gains to be had with a better advance curve. I have 2 MP electronic distributors, so I'll probably send one for tuning and keep the other in the car until FBO returns it.
I like having that wideband guage. I've already had all sorts of missteps with the car. At the very least, this guage lets me know when I am heading in the right direction. Once the car is dialed in, I'm not so sure how useful it might be. I've toyed with the idea of adding a vacuum guage to sit alongside it. I don't smoke, so I removed the ashtray and made a twin guage pod to fit there.

Hey working is important! Let us know what happens!

Tomorrow I plan to get the valve covers back on and take the car for a drive. I do have an update, though.

I have emailed with Don at FBO. Many members here know him to be a knowledgeable guy with ignition systems. I inquired about having my distributor recurved for my application. He responded, asking all of the various specs and the intended use of the car. In summary, he thinks my whole combo is out of whack! Converter too tight for the car, too tight for the cam, Timing comes in too early. He didn't like that I blocked off the vacuum advance. He thinks my carb jetting is off. He feels If I want an engine that is easier to drive, I'd need a smaller cam.
I'm more confused now!

I've never had any faith in Don! He likes to use the vacuum advance to hold idle up using manifold vacuum instead of the intended light cruise it was designed for on ported vaccuum. Its not really relivant with todays gas on a performance motor.
Guess if you don't know how to make a cammed motor idle that is what you do :-) .

I would like to see a looser converter but at this point drive see where you are and go from there. 3800???

recurving a distributor is a 5 minute job so do it yourself and try different things.

Your msd should have came with an advance kit different springs and stops

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/msdbuspset.html

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/disadweigspr.html

you can try the big stop 18 degree?? and stiff springs to slow down the advance to come in later. everything in this game is trial and error to get it best!

Quote:

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I have emailed with Don at FBO. Many members here know him to be a knowledgeable guy with ignition systems. I inquired about having my distributor recurved for my application. He responded, asking all of the various specs and the intended use of the car. In summary, he thinks my whole combo is out of whack! Converter too tight for the car, too tight for the cam, Timing comes in too early. He didn't like that I blocked off the vacuum advance. He thinks my carb jetting is off. He feels If I want an engine that is easier to drive, I'd need a smaller cam.
I'm more confused now!

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What converter are you running?...I didn't see where you said but I don't have the time to re-read this entire thread ;-)

I would think anything in the 2500+ (ideally 3000+) stall range would at least 'work' in your combo. I am not going to trash talk anybody as I am far from an expert but I don't think a slightly less than ideal converter would cause all this pinging. I run a 2500 stall converter on mine with no issues (although I have the wimpy-ish cam).

Yes, your cam is a bit radical for a street car IMO (although 'street' is subjective) but still should be able to work better than this. I summary, I don't think your converter/cam is the problem here....even if it's not ideal.

FWIW, I don't use the vacuum advance on my distributor at all. My distributor (MP) has a total mechanical advance on 18*. The vacuum advance made it tend to ping unless I pulled back the initial which the engine didn't like as much. The chassis dyno agreed.

My converter is a 9 3/4" built by a local company. In 2011 I pulled it to have it modified for a bit less stall. It was originally rated at 3000 but at freeway speeds it just felt lazy, like a feeling of freewheeling. I hated that.
It feels much better now. Its not as if the converter is so tight that the car is a slug out of the hole. It will boil the tires easily. Maybe with better traction the converter may be a problem.

Yea think the mallory has adjustable stops and spring kits are available


this may be the ticket
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/maa-29014(2)1.pdf

Kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-29014/overview/

Thanks, Dodgem. I will look into this no matter what else I decide.
I just went for a drive. No leaks anywhere but it is still pinging.
I talked to Jim at Racer Brown. After telling him about the issues here, he thinks that my pitiful .056 quench clearance coupled with high compression is a big factor. He thinks that the real solution is to zero deck the block and run the .039 Fel Pro gasket to have proper quench. He is a believer that even with higher compression, the benefits of quench allow higher compression without detonation. It all sounds great in theory. The zero deck would raise the compression from the current 10.73 to 11.13. Thats 4 tenths!
Jim also suggested running a thinner head gasket as a test. A Cometic .027 would reduce my quench distance to .44 and raise the compression to 11.03.
Another interesting thing from Jim: When I told him that the Lunati cam made more cranking compression than the MP 509, he thinks it could be because of the valve lash! He said the lash acts as a delay in the reaction of the rocker arms. A solid with bigger specs can actually result in less lift and duration than a hydraulic with smaller numbers. In short, my valve lash may be responsible for making the Lunati act smaller than the 509, resulting in MORE cylinder pressure. He thought that I could try tightning the lash on the intake from .020 to .016 and see if that helps.
The car detonates worse now than it did with the 509 cam. I think it is partly due to the bump in cylinder pressure. I'm running a 50/50 mix of 91 and 100 now and it knocks. I think that several months back I wrote that on a 50/50 mix of 91 and 110 it ran great with the 509. The numbers are not an exact comparison though, so I may dump the 5 gallons of 110 I have in and drive it again.

Thinking back to June or July before I bought any parts, I talked to Dwayne Porter. He thought that a zero deck engine would be the best route, but also spoke of having the pistons milled on the valve side maybe .040 to lower compression some. If I ever decide to pull the engine, this may be the way to go. I'd have quench while being around 10.25 to one.

Hang in there!

Isn't decking your block that much to get your pistons up to zero deck going to open up another can of worms? Or are you talking about new pistons?

I've been looking at the options for head gaskets at SummitRacing.

Fel Pro # 1105 has a 4.590 bore, .051 thickness and a 13.7 cc. It moves my compression to 10.36.
Cometic # .051 has a 4.380 bore, a .051 thickness and a 12.59 cc. I get a 10.47 CR there.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cgt-c5464-075/overview/make/dodge

Cometic # 5464-075 has a 4.5 bore, is .075 thick and a 19.55 cc. It drops the compression to 9.89! That would surely allow some wiggle room for even running 89 octane gas!
When I ran the .060 Cometics before, I was told I'd have intake gasket alignment issues. Luckily, I did not. These .075 Cometics are .015 thicker. If I decide to go this route again, WHO makes a thicker paper intake gasket? The Fel Pro ones are pretty thin.

What is the compressed thicknes of the current gaskets? You have .056" quench now (which is actually no or very little quench). I am a quench proponent but I think the SCR is too high for quench to take care of you on this. I'd go with that .075" gasket you mentioned. I dont see a problem doubling up on the intake paper gaskets as they are smooth with no beaded/raised edges. Permatex spray "high tack" part #99MA the red stuff is extremely tacky/seals well/goes on light/even would work well for gluing 2 of em together & even some super glue on some areas not near the ports to aid in keeping them connected as you go together. I would vastly lower the SCR which'll give you some wiggle room & also select the cam you want rather than putting up with a compromise choice cam which the vastly lower
SCR will let you run a good curve & give you more power than a higher SCR with the compromised curve which you have now even if you get under the pinging point. In other words with the correct cam then if for example if 9.5 will just stop the pinging I'd go a bit lower then optimize the curve. A bit too low is better than too high. It's all in the curve

If I could go back and visit myself in 2004 I would have ordered dished pistons and zero decked the block. This would have put me in the mid 9s with quench. I probably could have run 87 octane while still making plenty of power.
I could still do this, but that would be another $1000 in parts, machine work and down time.