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I do not need blue tooth, back-up camera's, speaker phone, or any other gitchagoomies, just a truck. Hell I don't even want ABS or an automatic...No center console, nothing...built in brake control and air ride would be nice, but I don't know who pays $60k for a stupid truck.

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Unfortuneatly there's some things you have to get with any vehicle. You want a work truck and unless you buy it new it usually is an abused beast and has no trade-in value no matter how well it's was or was not maintained.

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Cummins was FORCED to use DEF even when they passed all the emissions tests without it. Ferd and Chivvy until the gubmint told Cummins they had to.

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Diesel option (Cummins) alone is around $10,000, plus the heavier frame, bigger wheels and tires, more capacity, that's why the 2500 is so much more...

Trucks have a HUGE mark-up (as opposed to small cars, which have very little). Negotiate. I've purchased several Rams from Woodhouse in Blair, Nebraska. My whole family drives Rams (practically), if you include my Dad (now deceased, but had a 2004 and a 2008 both bought new), my father-in-law (2009 Ram 1500 new), and my brother-in-law (2011 Ram 2500 reg cab, traded for 2012 Ram 2500 Crew Cab) all bought new. All purchased for well under $10,000 below sticker on every one of them. PLENTY of room for negotiation.

Woodhouse has been very good to us, and they sell and deliver to all 50 states, so check them out! Woodhouse has a great website, too...

JS

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I guess I "done good"! Was able to pay 32K total for a new 2011 Dodge Ram 3500 dually, standard cab with manual OD transmission,,,in the whole Houston area there were only two white ones with standard cab with manual transmissions!
Other related issue-I know a well read mechanic that believes that there is a systematic collusion between government that has been lobbied into having all these high dollar electronic systems installed in autos etc that are made by the same companies that make electronics for the military,,,really who needs idiot light to tell you that air pressure is low??? read tach, speedo,etc in windshield like fighter pilots? Lot of these laws that require sensors etc are passed under the save the earth from pollution pitch...Quien Sabe??????????

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And that's the reason I drive old crap. Heck I couldn't afford a car payment as is

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Cummins was FORCED to use DEF even when they passed all the emissions tests without it. Ferd and Chivvy until the gubmint told Cummins they had to.

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I call BS on that.

Cummins met emissions using an LNT, but at the cost of 7-10 % fuel economy loss and several thousand dollars of Rhodium and Platinum in the LNT.

Ford and GM made the hard choice to use an SCR system (requires user interface, ie refilling DEF tank with Urea). The SCR systems meet NOx emissions with little fuel economy penalty.

The SCR system is a cost reduction (for the OEM) and a fuel economy improvement (for the customer) compared to the earlier systems.

The Government sets PERFORMANCE standards. The OEM is free to select / develop any technology to meet that performance standard..

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You can call BS all you want, I was talking with a Cummins engineer down in Columbus, IN a couple years ago after I sold him a truck and he related that tidbit to me. All I can do is recall anecdotes and pass them along.

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Guess I better keep the sticker on my F450 to myslef thenAlthough I did pay substantially less than sticker.

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Yes it is a 6.7 liter CC Dually 4x4. Just made a trip to Oklahoma city and back pulling my 28' enclosed hauling cars each way and averaged 13.5 going 70+ each way. The 4.56 gear aint helping the fuel mileage any for sure. But it pulls like a dream and plenty of power.

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