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another broken valley pan!! #1473793
07/25/13 01:47 AM
07/25/13 01:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 76
california
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hornetnut Offline OP
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california
i know theres probably lots of threads for this, but i went through 25 pages before i gave up..
i broke another valley pan last weekend, right down the middle, again!!.. so ive been told i need to switch to an evacuation system, i found on at summit for 38 bucks and was wondering if you guys have any dos or donts for me when installing it..

i have been running a pcv on one side and a breather on the other and everytime i run at the track i break a valley pan and im really tired of it...

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: hornetnut] #1473794
07/25/13 02:06 AM
07/25/13 02:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
rebel Offline
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aotearoa
can you post a pic so we can see what the damage looks like?

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: hornetnut] #1473795
07/25/13 02:21 AM
07/25/13 02:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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Rogue River, OR
Quote:

i know theres probably lots of threads for this, but i went through 25 pages before i gave up..
i broke another valley pan last weekend, right down the middle, again!!.. so ive been told i need to switch to an evacuation system, i found on at summit for 38 bucks and was wondering if you guys have any dos or donts for me when installing it..

i have been running a pcv on one side and a breather on the other and everytime i run at the track i break a valley pan and im really tired of it...




Power adder combo? What are the ring gaps set at?

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: rebel] #1473796
07/25/13 02:30 AM
07/25/13 02:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 76
california
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hornetnut Offline OP
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california
i dont have a way to post pics but i guess i should elaborate a bit,

its a 67 440 with eddy perf rpm heads, milled down to 79cc's port matched and a perf rpm intake, 030 over bore with forged pistons, steel crank and rods, old ultradyne solid cam, all packed in a 74 amc hornet hatchback, now the first time i really stood on it it pushed the dipstick out a lil and pushed oil out on the header, so i figured at the time i must have over revved it, i went racing shortly after and it got really bad at the track and i noticed when i got it home that the valley pan was cracked, after some research i figured out that i had too much crankcase pressure and replaced the pan and added a breather to the opposite valve cover, i drove it in town for a while and thought i had it fixed, went racing again and it doesnt push the dipstick out anymore but it still cracked the valley pan

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: hornetnut] #1473797
07/25/13 02:52 AM
07/25/13 02:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
rebel Offline
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rebel  Offline
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Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
are you using the bathtub valley pan?

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: hornetnut] #1473798
07/25/13 09:21 AM
07/25/13 09:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

i dont have a way to post pics but i guess i should elaborate a bit,

its a 67 440 with eddy perf rpm heads, milled down to 79cc's port matched and a perf rpm intake, 030 over bore with forged pistons, steel crank and rods, old ultradyne solid cam, all packed in a 74 amc hornet hatchback, now the first time i really stood on it it pushed the dipstick out a lil and pushed oil out on the header, so i figured at the time i must have over revved it, i went racing shortly after and it got really bad at the track and i noticed when i got it home that the valley pan was cracked, after some research i figured out that i had too much crankcase pressure and replaced the pan and added a breather to the opposite valve cover, i drove it in town for a while and thought i had it fixed, went racing again and it doesnt push the dipstick out anymore but it still cracked the valley pan




You still have way to much crankcase pressure... you
need to watch some of those breather caps.. the port
in the cap(the hole) on some is actually restricted
alot with the stuffing in them... I had a pair of
Summit ones that I had to bend open the metal tang
in it and pulled out over half of the stuffing to get
it to flow... just try blowing into the breather from
the engine side.. it should be fairly easy... on the
E-vacs.. if you run muffs you CAN run into problems..
the e-vac will pull about 5"HG and for every inch
of back pressure in the muffs you decrease the vac
by the same amount... until you start making pressure
and blows the check valve out and starts pressurizing
the crankcase with exhaust gasses.... the thing is
that the higher your RPM goes it wants to make more
pressure... thats why on the city driving you figured
it was fixed(low rpm) and at the track you spun it up

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1473799
07/25/13 10:10 AM
07/25/13 10:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
master
BigBlockMopar  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
The valley pan is due to it's size exposed to a much larger area of pressure then the dipstick-seal. Therefore it will buckle much easier, even with it's concave shape.

I once had a totally worn 440 which had broken rings in about 3-4 of it's cylinders. This motor pretty much inverted the shape of the valleypan and was pushed tightly against the intake manifold.

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1473800
07/25/13 10:17 AM
07/25/13 10:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Nebraska
Have you tried lightening up your oil?


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: 72Swinger] #1473801
07/25/13 10:40 AM
07/25/13 10:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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dennismopar73 Offline
top fuel
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Timing is the normal issue here.
once you get to 38 deg and depending on the amount of blowby at that point you will see valley pans blow up, I tried the pcv way even with 2 clear vents wouldnt blow oil out but still pushed the valley up , done this three times,,
Finaly went to lean burn dist, set my timing at 34 , no more blowing up!
some of those fine really nice looking dist can go way beyond 45deg total

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: hornetnut] #1473802
07/25/13 10:54 AM
07/25/13 10:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Crizila  Offline
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Az
Might want to consider running a leak down test to see where the leak is at and just how bad it is.


Fastest 300
Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: Crizila] #1473803
07/25/13 10:55 AM
07/25/13 10:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
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Syracuse,NY


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1473804
07/25/13 11:29 AM
07/25/13 11:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 76
california
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hornetnut Offline OP
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california
im running a 440 source fluid dampner so timing could be off, i do have mufflers, they are the summit racing street/strip flowmaster knock offs,two chamber , three inch pipe with turn outs after the muffs,
the oil is kendal 10w30 with a bottle of vinc, the first time this happened i was running 5w30 but i didnt like oil that light.. the dist is an electronic unit that uses an hei module, timing makes sense as at the track in the staging lanes it acts like it has too much timing when trying to restart

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: Crizila] #1473805
07/25/13 12:31 PM
07/25/13 12:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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State of confusion
Quote:

Might want to consider running a leak down test to see where the leak is at and just how bad it is.



Agreed, you`ve got bigger problems that a new pan probably wont fix.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: Thumperdart] #1473806
07/25/13 01:06 PM
07/25/13 01:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
pro stock
Biginchmopar  Offline
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Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
You need to run a leakdown test........way to much back pressure!
I can tell you from experience some of the rings might be in upside down.
A pan-a-vac will help if you don't run mufflers
Keep us posted.


Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: Biginchmopar] #1473807
07/25/13 06:54 PM
07/25/13 06:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
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Well my experience both times that the valley pan raised up and split down the middle was a worn exhaust cam lobe. might want to check that first. :scopeout



it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: rowin4] #1473808
07/25/13 07:49 PM
07/25/13 07:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 76
california
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hornetnut Offline OP
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california
i pulled the intake and valley pan, checked the cam lobes and all look great, i did notice that the second cyl back on the pass side shows signs of the intake valve not seating correctly, theres black soot, looks like exhaust around the valve seat area and up.. maybe a valve too tight?

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: hornetnut] #1473809
07/25/13 09:01 PM
07/25/13 09:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,454
Florida STAYcation
dOoC Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOoC  Offline
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Posts: 30,454
Florida STAYcation
Quote:

i pulled the intake and valley pan, checked the cam lobes and all look great, i did notice that the second cyl back on the pass side shows signs of the intake valve not seating correctly, theres black soot, looks like exhaust around the valve seat area and up.. maybe a valve too tight?




Horny ... you have more serious-issues than soot or a valve tooo tight. The last split/blown-up VP I saw had a hole in a piston the size of a nickel

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: dOoC] #1473810
07/25/13 09:27 PM
07/25/13 09:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 76
california
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hornetnut Offline OP
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california
Quote:



Horny ... you have more serious-issues than soot or a valve tooo tight. The last split/blown-up VP I saw had a hole in a piston the size of a nickel




it doesnt run bad at all, no missfires no popping or anything weird, it runs awesome, the last time out it cracked the pan and i stuffed a bunch of rags under the intake to soak it up while i finished running that night, it still ran 11.60's just had to change the rags every round... leak down test it is...

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: hornetnut] #1473811
07/25/13 10:41 PM
07/25/13 10:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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dennismopar73 Offline
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Yes you can do the leakdown test never hurts to know where your at there, But my bet still on timing and dist deal!!!
Add in it looks like it may also be fat on carb setting/jetting this to will add to the issue

Re: another broken valley pan!! [Re: hornetnut] #1473812
07/25/13 11:32 PM
07/25/13 11:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,454
Florida STAYcation
dOoC Offline
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dOoC  Offline
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Posts: 30,454
Florida STAYcation
Horny .... just do a simple compression check .... I will bet you - you have a hole that is almost "dead".

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