Re: Getting ready to degree a cam for the first time.
[Re: Dodgem]
#1473578
07/25/13 03:04 PM
07/25/13 03:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
What kind of heads?? You sure the fire wire on the fel pro gaskets is not hanging in the combustion chamber and glowing red hot?? a common problem.
Lean jetting and too low a power valve number can cause light throttle ping too!
Edelbrock aluminum heads. The block bore is 4.35 and the gasket bore is 4.410. Pretty close, but I should be okay there. Regarding the jetting, I'm running a Demon 850 with 85/92 jets and a 3.5 PV. I'll agree the PV is too small. The knocking I get though is at full throttle. I have a few other PVs to use in the parts stash.
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Re: Getting ready to degree a cam for the first time.
[Re: 67Satty]
#1473582
07/25/13 03:17 PM
07/25/13 03:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
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Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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I tried! I measured all sorts of sockets at Sears. I thought the clerk was going to kick me out. I measured the impact sockets, the standard chrome sockets, the shallow sockets.... I went to an auto parts store and measured their sockets. I measured some of my old sockets. Since I'm an American car guy, I had no 17 mm sockets to measure.
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Re: Getting ready to degree a cam for the first time.
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1473586
07/25/13 09:32 PM
07/25/13 09:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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I think it is the edelbrock heads that leave a bit of the fire ring exposed in to places?? I would definatly go with a higher number PV 1.5 to 2 under in gear idle vacuum works out about right on a performance engine. so if you have 8.5 a 6.5 will work if you have 7.5 a 5.5 if you have 10 or 11 a 7.5 as the vacuum gets higher the spread can be more. to small no extra fuel on light to medium acceleration so lean ping. definetely go the bigger cam it is still small by 493 standards. 4000 stall will help reduce ping too! O degree the cam right don't try any back yard or back woods red neck short cuts! IMHO!!!!
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Re: Getting ready to degree a cam for the first time.
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1473589
07/26/13 01:14 AM
07/26/13 01:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
You wouldn't want to try a 6.5 power valve in a motor that has 7.0 inches idling in gear
In 2005 I took the car to a dyno shop. The man recurved the distributor and tweaked the carb. He changed the power valve to a 6.5 too. Much later as I was trying to diagnose an engine smoke issue, I tried the 3.5 PV. What are the effects of running the higher rated valve? Does it make the engine run leaner during transition from the primaries to the secondaries?
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Re: Getting ready to degree a cam for the first time.
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1473592
07/26/13 03:41 PM
07/26/13 03:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,268 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,268
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Seems I can be a little slow sometimes. This means that by going to the lower rated 3.5 valve, I made the carb run leaner than with the 6.5?
Not at WOT the 3.5 opens at a lower manifold vacume, both P.V. will be opened at WOT The 6.5 will open sooner at part throotle cruise than the 3.5 will The main thing to check before selecting the power valve to use is to check the manifold vacume with the trans in gear, then select a power valve that is 1 to 2 inches lower than idle vacume I had the same saet of six pak carbs on several different motors, one with abg cam and another with a lot smaller cam, 518 C.I. versus 446 C.i. The big motor wanted a 2.5 P.W., it had 4.5 inches vacume idling in gear at 850 RPM the 446 C.i. motor had over 8.0 inches idling in gear, I found out that the little motor would make vacume in high gear at WOT on a 1/4 mile track making the 2.5 power open and close I put a 6.5 in it and that fixed the problem I had to put the lower(2.5) P.V. back in the center carb for the bigger motor when i put those carbs. back on it Going fast is never easy Be prepared to work and be disappointed some times while you learn
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Getting ready to degree a cam for the first time.
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1473593
07/29/13 08:35 PM
07/29/13 08:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
I'm assuming that you are set on the octane you'll use. Yeah, I want the engine to run well on pump premium fuel. Here in CA, we're limited to 91 octane. I want to be able to drive it without having to resort to any sort of octane boosters. What about opening up the chambers (unshrouding the valves on the ends works well for more flow also) or deependng the valve notches or thicker head gaskets if you have no quench I thought of the thicker head gasket idea, but at .056 quench distance, I at least have some quench going on. I'm considering having the heads ported over the winter. I may be way off here but the 509 is an old school wild cam & I cant see that going more wild with a cam will get the the DCR down to where you can run the octane you desire. I agree to a point, but there is more to it. The Lunati has a later intake closing event. This will bleed off some cylinder pressure, reducing the dynamic compression ratio. The goal , and hopefully the result, is to reduce the octane requirements and allow the engine to make more power. Just me I'd feed this monster the octane it wants (& needs) & put the exact cam in there you want for your driving style rather than having to compromise your driveability with a wilder cam to run the inadequate octane you want & I dont think ANY cam is going to lower the DCR enough OR bite the bullet & do it right & lower the SCR & put the corect cam in there to suit your driving. You'll be happier in the long run. Holler how it turns out
I had the engine out in 2011 to deglaze the cylinders and put in new rings. My tuning was waaay off and running too fat for too long wasted the rings. I really should have just replaced the pistons when I had them out. Another idea was to have the valve sides of the pistons milled .040 while leaving the quench side alone. With that, I could run a .027 MLS gasket, gaining quench while still lowering the static compression ratio about 3/10ths of a point. I just didn't feel like pulling the engine to replace pistons. I've come to understand that a 500 inch engine is UNDERcammed with the '509 anyway.
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