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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: Randy..]
#1473038
07/23/13 10:25 PM
07/23/13 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
bdaz smblk
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
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What for converter is in it?
3120lb, small block, 10.5" tire, NA, through exhaust, full int, WITH 83/4 REAR, 9.0 at 150mph
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: vern73]
#1473039
07/23/13 10:26 PM
07/23/13 10:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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With a stroker you need more filling ablity... if your cam was smallish for the 360 then its REALLY small for the 410... that goes for the heads and the headers and carb...you could easily be way past peak power 
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: cudadoug]
#1473041
07/24/13 06:55 AM
07/24/13 06:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
off the grid
340B5
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
off the grid
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It's a whole new animal now. It's gonna take a lot of tuning.
Experiment and keep track in a logbook.
Yeah, it's got a smallblock.
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: vern73]
#1473042
07/24/13 11:44 AM
07/24/13 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
I put a 4" forged crank in my 360, left everything else the same, except for a 4.10 gear now instead of 4.30's. The 4.30 was going to wind it too hard. It crosses at 6550 now. This is in a Dart which I bracket race. It now runs 10.80 at 121.5mph and with the 360 it would be 11.0 at 119, so I feel disappointed with all the money spent for so little et improvement. I wonder if I expected too much? What do you think?
Tell us about the combination you have, intake, cam, compression, etc. etc. As a rule, when you add cubic inches you need to improve head flow, intake flow, camshaft size, header size, etc. etc.
If all you did was put the bigger crank in it, you got pretty much what I would expect, a low rpm torque motor that's done making power pretty early in the rpm range.
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: Performance Only]
#1473043
07/24/13 11:48 AM
07/24/13 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
I put a 4" forged crank in my 360, left everything else the same, except for a 4.10 gear now instead of 4.30's. The 4.30 was going to wind it too hard. It crosses at 6550 now. This is in a Dart which I bracket race. It now runs 10.80 at 121.5mph and with the 360 it would be 11.0 at 119, so I feel disappointed with all the money spent for so little et improvement. I wonder if I expected too much? What do you think?
Tell us about the combination you have, intake, cam, compression, etc. etc. As a rule, when you add cubic inches you need to improve head flow, intake flow, camshaft size, header size, etc. etc.
If all you did was put the bigger crank in it, you got pretty much what I would expect, a low rpm torque motor that's done making power pretty early in the rpm range.
Yep, way back when I had a long conversation with Ken Hensley on the phone asking him how much difference a 4 inch crank would make over a stock stroke 340 with all else being the same with the eddie heads I was working with, and I remember him stating probably about 3 tenths is all you will see
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: Performance Only]
#1473044
07/24/13 11:59 AM
07/24/13 11:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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W/o adding flow, you aren't gonna see much...you'll just drop the powerband down and add some torque.
Good friend of mine had a backhalved Daytona w/ a 440 in it...stock iron 346 casting heads, tight converter. He wanted to go fast so we turned it into a 499 (everything else the same)...it only ran .15 sec quicker in the 1/8. All the gain was in the 60'.
Got a good converter for it...dropped .5 sec.
Got some Indy SR heads...dropped another .5 sec. Would have gone a bunch faster, but sold it before we did any tuning after the new heads went on.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: vern73]
#1473045
07/24/13 12:11 PM
07/24/13 12:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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Quote:
I put a 4" forged crank in my 360, left everything else the same, except for a 4.10 gear now instead of 4.30's. The 4.30 was going to wind it too hard. It crosses at 6550 now. This is in a Dart which I bracket race. It now runs 10.80 at 121.5mph and with the 360 it would be 11.0 at 119, so I feel disappointed with all the money spent for so little et improvement. I wonder if I expected too much? What do you think?
So, really,,you are disappointed?
you changed the whole dynamics of the motor and gear, it picks up,, and your disappointed??
I would have kept the 430s in, changed cam, shift points, bigger carb, but , you have nothing to be disappointed about at all!
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: vern73]
#1473049
07/24/13 10:29 PM
07/24/13 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
To follow up, everything else stayed the same. The cam is 252I-248E at .050 with .555I, .525E lift, Heads are mildly ported Edelbrocks, AirGap intake, 750cfm Quick Fuel carb, 727 trans. with PTC 8inch converter, flashes to 5200. Car is about 3100 lbs. without me. That's the combo pretty much. And I didn't know quite what to expect e.t. wise so that's why I'm asking. It has been to the track 3 times, but the weather has been really hot.
Lots of potential there with some changes. What is the current compression ratio and what is the current cranking compression? Mildly ported edelbrocks will hold that engine back considerably. the cam isn't even close to what I'd normally run in a combo like that, but in the end you really have to look at the entire combo and have everything working well together. From what I see you're intentions were good but by not adapting to the change in engine size you're just holding the engine back from its true potential. I would guess maybe that was done for budgetary concerns? You could very easily pick up considerable power but you would need too almost tear it apart and start again. More flow in the heads, better cam and larger carb would really wake it up. It's just my opinion, but in general, edelbrock heads even fully ported are still small for that size engine, but as I said, more port work can make a huge difference.
How much of a gain would you like to see?
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: viperblue72]
#1473052
07/26/13 08:16 AM
07/26/13 08:16 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
South Jersey, NJ
DragDart360
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
South Jersey, NJ
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I think that combo is running strong in the heat. When cool weather comes you'll pick up that .10 to.15 maybe even .2 You just need more atmosphere  What do you have the timing set at?
Last edited by DragDart360; 07/26/13 08:19 AM.
70 Dart Swinger, 2850 lbs
SB 408, Bullet roller 264/268 @50 .636 SSDS stage 2 Edelbrock heads, 1 7/8 Headmans, 1050 dominator by Dom, 9.867 @ 133
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: viperblue72]
#1473053
07/26/13 08:18 AM
07/26/13 08:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,444
NEW JERSEY
dynamite
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,444
NEW JERSEY
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I kinda did the same thing with my 440...stock unported iron 906 heads, 530 lift roller cam ,performer intake and holly 750..went 12.5 @ 109 mph..just put a 4.125 stroker kit ....used all the same parts and went 11.72 @ 114 mph..and changed gears from 3;91 to 3;55
Last edited by dynamite; 07/26/13 08:19 AM.
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: dynamite]
#1473054
07/26/13 10:18 AM
07/26/13 10:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
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Actually runs real well for what you have going on  I think you went in the right direction with the convertor, probably still even at 5200 flash its a bit too high with what your combination is, around 4900-5000 would be more optimal, imo. Definitely leaving something on the table with the cam you have, should have more lift and 10 degrees more duration. I agree a bigger carb would also show a gain, 950hp would probably be a good upgrade. Unsure why after tightening up the convertor you lost 3 hundreds, perhaps worse air, track prep or who knows what, but you went in the correct direction. I ran almost the same combo as you a while back( 3450 race weight,bench seat column shift, 727, 4.10 gear, weiand excellerator, 416, mild ported eddies( 275 peak@600) 260/266 598/623 lift flat tappet, 1025 race demon 4150 carb, tti 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 step headers and mufflers, 8 inch convertor flashed 4900), just a tiny bit more compression...went 10.74 at 124, 1.44 60 foot. Mine laid over big time the last 150 foot of track or so.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: vern73]
#1473056
07/26/13 07:35 PM
07/26/13 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
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Definately wouldn't stand the cam straight up. Cam is just real small and is barely opening the valves maybe 1/2 inch if that after deflection. Small cam and small heads on that many inches is a governor on performance, you are running real stout with what you have. 
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: Not much quicker with 410" stroker??
[Re: B3422W5]
#1473057
07/26/13 10:31 PM
07/26/13 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
dusturbd340W5
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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yeap I agree with some other post 1 no where near enough cam, need more head work and more carb and I will tell you I was running 4.88 gears with my 416 and it was very happy.
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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