Guys,

I have an engine with roughly 1000 miles on it. I have had a problem with a lifter(s) ticking for about the last 500 or so miles. I've worked with the cam supplier to try and troubleshoot it, but nothing seemed to work. I finally pulled the intake and lifters. The lifters appear to not have been hardened properly by the wear marks and pits on the bottom of some of them. The cam is showing pits on a couple of the lobes. I have not removed it yet, but will Tuesday. From the attached pic, does this look normal for an engine with such low mileage? I sent a ton of pics of the lifters to the cam supplier and am waiting his response. I'm wondering what you guys think as I'm no expert and would appreciate your thoughts.

That wouldn't be normal on a 100,000 mile engine. I would definitely cut the oil filter open and check for debris. You may get lucky and not have to completely disassemble the engine for cleaning and probable bearing replacement, but I wouldn't count on it.

You had a textbook cam failure.

Those "pits" on the bottom of the one lifter are from microwelding the lifter to the cam lobe then tearing it away. The other two lifters just aren't that far along.....

Your cam is shot, take it out.

Small consolation is that you are not alone. Cam failure on break-in is rampant.

R.

Only a few cam lobes show pitting, wouldn't a failure to break it in, take out all the lobes? And faster than a thousand miles?

Camshafts are lubricated mostly by splash. Some of the lifters get more splash than others, so I don't think it's a sign that three went bad. The situation muust have been borderline for it to take 1000 miles, although back in the day it wasn't uncommon to see engines go 50K - 70K miles and THEN develop a flat lobe or two. Of course those were mild cams and wimpy springs....

If I'm the cam company and have had hundreds of cam failures in the last couple of years, which the large volume manufacturers certainly have had, if I say "you get a new cam and lifters" to every one, I'm going out of business. So don't expect anything except sympathy from your cam manufacturer.
At best maybe they'll offer a discount on replacement parts.
R.

I just posted pics of three lifters. They all have issues. I talked to the cam supplier and so far he is saying the cam and lifters are good and they won't warranty anything. I find that position hard to believe. I got the cam from a well known guy who has his cams custom ground. He is not the manufacturer, Engle is. But, he said no one warranty's their cams now days. Which is not true according to my engine builder. I don't know about all that, but I do know, the lifters were failing which is why I pulled them. The pitting I found is a secondary issue after pulling them.

Pulling the cam today and putting in a new one from a different company.

Ok, here comes the inevitable question... What oil did you use? Any additives?

That doesn't really make sense, if the cam had a preference regarding oil viscosity I would think it would prefer a thicker weight oil for the additional film strength.

I am sorry about your misfortune. I am just curious, was this a solid or hydraulic cam and what were the spring pressures like?

Some cam lobe pics.

'nutter

I called Engle direct since the guy I got the cam from claims there is no issue with the cam. Engle said there is no warranty and they won't do anything. Engle said they don't make lifters, they buy from another source. Supposedly, high quality Made in the USA ones.

So, the guy I got the cam from says, the cam is fine and he'd run it. Would you guys run this?

The lobe pics are representative of most of the lobes on the cam.

Post deleted by Dixie

Dont know the cause, but its definetly junk. Looks like electrolysis

That cam and lifters are garbage. dont even THINK about running them.

To me it looks more like poor metalurgy than a lubrication issue. I also think you probably got lucky with no other damage--inspect the pan, oil pump, piston skirts etc.

Offer to install that into the engine of the guy you bought it from. He said he'd have no problem running it. It looks like a metallurgy problem to me as well.

Sheldon

IT IS NOT A METALLURGY PROBLEM!

It is a lubrication failure. It happens when the pressure between cam and lifter (or gear teeth) exceeds the oil's film strength. The oil film ruptures, microwelding occurs, then tears apart, leaving those pits.

Similar pictures are found in every textbook on lubrication and assessing failures.

No, I wouldn't run the cam, it is shot.

Unfortunately for engine builders, lifter acceleration is generally increasing while lubricant antiwear/EP properties are decreasing. Thus, the plethora of camshaft failures. This is made even worse by the necessity of using higher valvespring pressures with the more extreme lifter acceleration values.

Welcome to the world of high performance. No cam manufacturer will warranty such a failure, except Hughes says they will IF you follow their directions exactly.

The faster you want to go the more you will discover there are costs for every advancement. Ain't pretty, but it's true.

R.