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It is worth remembering that
the lower horsepower consumed by an electric fan at full throttle
can not last more than a minute or so,
beause the engine will overheat.

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Explain this please. If your car is at full throttle most likely it's moving quite quickly, then the radiator is doing most of the cooling and not the fan as it's not needed to get airflow.

A clutch fan would be slipping at higher RPM's anyways..so how's this different than an electric fan?

I can see if you were going up a steep mountain with a large load in first gear moving slowly at high rev's where the additional air flow potential of a mechanical fan would be useful. How many here are towing large loads up mountains in Death Valley with their classic Mopars here? Even so, if that were a concern, you can install bigger electric fans to deal with these extreme circumstances.

I'm not advocating one is better than the other here...I see pros and cons to each. I just object to people who spread misinformation like "you won't be able to effectively cool your engine with electric fans...just go clutch".

IDK...maybe I'm just the one lucky SOB here who has an engine that cools just fine with electric fans?

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It is worth remembering that
the lower horsepower consumed by an electric fan at full throttle
can not last more than a minute or so,
beause the engine will overheat.

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Explain this please. If your car is at full throttle most likely it's moving quite quickly, then the radiator is doing most of the cooling and not the fan as it's not needed to get airflow.

A clutch fan would be slipping at higher RPM's anyways..so how's this different than an electric fan?

I can see if you were going up a steep mountain with a large load in first gear moving slowly at high rev's where the additional air flow potential of a mechanical fan would be useful. How many here are towing large loads up mountains in Death Valley with their classic Mopars here? Even so, if that were a concern, you can install bigger electric fans to deal with these extreme circumstances.

I'm not advocating one is better than the other here...I see pros and cons to each. I just object to people who spread misinformation like "you won't be able to effectively cool your engine with electric fans...just go clutch".

IDK...maybe I'm just the one lucky SOB here who has an engine that cools just fine with electric fans?

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why is this such a "heated" debate?












I kill me

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Perhaps we need to cool it down a bit...

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why is this such a "heated" debate?












I kill me

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Perhaps we need to cool it down a bit...

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Incredible...
Nobody has mentioned the HP drop when the alternator kicks in to drive those (2) electric fans..
Electric fans can draw up to 35 Amps, while many OE Mopar alternators were only rated < 50 Amps...

Just my $0.02...

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HP drop was measured and factored into the dyno tests. HP drop is much less than that of a mechanical fan but yes, there is an additional load placed on the alternator from the electric fan. After all, nothing is free.

That being said an electric fan can cut off entirely when it's not needed (ZERO loss) unlike a mechanical fan.

As I already mentioned, adding electric fans will most likely necessitate upgrades to the charging circuit or you will create more problems. As for my car, I went to a 100 amp alternator and I don't have discharge unless I am idling in gear/lights on/AC on/hi blower/fans on @ the same time. This all goes back to the "well-planned" part I talked about.

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Incredible...
Nobody has mentioned the HP drop when the alternator kicks in to drive those (2) electric fans..
Electric fans can draw up to 35 Amps, while many OE Mopar alternators were only rated < 50 Amps...

Just my $0.02...

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HP drop was measured and factored into the dyno tests. HP drop is much less than that of a mechanical fan but yes, there is an additional load placed on the alternator from the electric fan. After all, nothing is free.

That being said an electric fan can cut off entirely when it's not needed (ZERO loss) unlike a mechanical fan.

As I already mentioned, adding electric fans will most likely necessitate upgrades to the charging circuit or you will create more problems. As for my car, I went to a 100 amp alternator and I don't have discharge unless I am idling in gear/lights on/AC on/hi blower/fans on @ the same time. This all goes back to the "well-planned" part I talked about.

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Shun him SHUN HIM before he makes enough sense to convert you.

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Thanks guys, that gives me enough info to stay with a clutch type fan. Now all I need is a shroud that will fit.

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Incredible...
Nobody has mentioned the HP drop when the alternator kicks in to drive those (2) electric fans..
Electric fans can draw up to 35 Amps, while many OE Mopar alternators were only rated < 50 Amps...

Just my $0.02...

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...and it is uNcredible that you did not mention how little the electrics have to stay on during normal driving ...

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Quote:

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Incredible...
Nobody has mentioned the HP drop when the alternator kicks in to drive those (2) electric fans..
Electric fans can draw up to 35 Amps, while many OE Mopar alternators were only rated < 50 Amps...

Just my $0.02...

---

HP drop was measured and factored into the dyno tests. HP drop is much less than that of a mechanical fan but yes, there is an additional load placed on the alternator from the electric fan. After all, nothing is free.

That being said an electric fan can cut off entirely when it's not needed (ZERO loss) unlike a mechanical fan.

As I already mentioned, adding electric fans will most likely necessitate upgrades to the charging circuit or you will create more problems. As for my car, I went to a 100 amp alternator and I don't have discharge unless I am idling in gear/lights on/AC on/hi blower/fans on @ the same time. This all goes back to the "well-planned" part I talked about.

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I wouldn't call that "well planned" if your car discharges at idle with everything on. That's not any good.

I recently installed a 99 amp powermaster alt in my ride. Made a huge improvement and it put's out good down low. I also put my lights and AC on relays and my lights stay bright at idle now, 13.9-14.1 volts bright at idle with the new alt.
I can't stand when a car discharges at night and the headlites dim. I always kept my foot on the gas some to keep the Rs up so my headlites stayed on. No more.

I think this powermaster could handle a 30 amp fan at idle?? Don't know it might be a problem?

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Incredible...
Nobody has mentioned the HP drop when the alternator kicks in to drive those (2) electric fans..
Electric fans can draw up to 35 Amps, while many OE Mopar alternators were only rated < 50 Amps...

Just my $0.02...

---

HP drop was measured and factored into the dyno tests. HP drop is much less than that of a mechanical fan but yes, there is an additional load placed on the alternator from the electric fan. After all, nothing is free.

That being said an electric fan can cut off entirely when it's not needed (ZERO loss) unlike a mechanical fan.

As I already mentioned, adding electric fans will most likely necessitate upgrades to the charging circuit or you will create more problems. As for my car, I went to a 100 amp alternator and I don't have discharge unless I am idling in gear/lights on/AC on/hi blower/fans on @ the same time. This all goes back to the "well-planned" part I talked about.

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I wouldn't call that "well planned" if your car discharges at idle with everything on. That's not any good.

I recently installed a 99 amp powermaster alt in my ride. Made a huge improvement and it put's out good down low. I also put my lights and AC on relays and my lights stay bright at idle now, 13.9-14.1 volts bright at idle with the new alt.
I can't stand when a car discharges at night and the headlites dim. I always kept my foot on the gas some to keep the Rs up so my headlites stayed on. No more.

I think this powermaster could handle a 30 amp fan at idle?? Don't know it might be a problem?

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Seriously? The OEM setup on my car 60 amp alternator would be discharging at idle if you turned on the lights and nothing else. So yeah, I'd say that only having a minor discharge with everything on at 700-750 rpm idle is absolutely acceptable considering a 20 amp draw from the fans which may or may not be on.

100 amp alternator is the biggest you can get for any reasonable amount of money that drops in and appears factory. My unit has the same specs as yours so I bet with yours...you'd be in the same boat.

Ask Powermaster what they define as 'idle'. I bet its 2400 alternator RPMs which would equate to 800 engine RPMs which I'm not running that high in gear. Since the output of an alternator is profoundly NOT linear in the lower ranges, this means you see significantly less than the stated idle output...that is unless you up your idle so your running 800 rpm in gear.

Sure enough, if I put the car in park/neutral, the RPM's rise closer to 800 and the discharge is gone.

But back to my original point, my charging circuit isn't perfect as it still can discharge in a few cases but it is 500% better than the factory performance. It looks factory without having some huge GM alternator on my engine. So yeah, I can accept a slight (<10 amps) discharge when I have ALL my accessories on at idle in gear and yes, I consider that well-planned.

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Seriously? The OEM setup on my car 60 amp alternator would be discharging at idle if you turned on the lights and nothing else. So yeah, I'd say that only having a minor discharge with everything on at 700-750 rpm idle is absolutely acceptable considering a 20 amp draw from the fans which may or may not be on.

100 amp alternator is the biggest you can get for any reasonable amount of money that drops in and appears factory. My unit has the same specs as yours so I bet with yours...you'd be in the same boat.

Ask Powermaster what they define as 'idle'. I bet its 2400 alternator RPMs which would equate to 800 engine RPMs which I'm not running that high in gear. Since the output of an alternator is profoundly NOT linear in the lower ranges, this means you see significantly less than the stated idle output...that is unless you up your idle so your running 800 rpm in gear.

Sure enough, if I put the car in park/neutral, the RPM's rise closer to 800 and the discharge is gone.

But back to my original point, my charging circuit isn't perfect as it still can discharge in a few cases but it is 500% better than the factory performance. It looks factory without having some huge GM alternator on my engine. So yeah, I can accept a slight (<10 amps) discharge when I have ALL my accessories on at idle in gear and yes, I consider that well-planned.

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Seriously? The OEM setup on my car 60 amp alternator would be discharging at idle if you turned on the lights and nothing else. So yeah, I'd say that only having a minor discharge with everything on at 700-750 rpm idle is absolutely acceptable considering a 20 amp draw from the fans which may or may not be on.

100 amp alternator is the biggest you can get for any reasonable amount of money that drops in and appears factory. My unit has the same specs as yours so I bet with yours...you'd be in the same boat.

Ask Powermaster what they define as 'idle'. I bet its 2400 alternator RPMs which would equate to 800 engine RPMs which I'm not running that high in gear. Since the output of an alternator is profoundly NOT linear in the lower ranges, this means you see significantly less than the stated idle output...that is unless you up your idle so your running 800 rpm in gear.

Sure enough, if I put the car in park/neutral, the RPM's rise closer to 800 and the discharge is gone.

But back to my original point, my charging circuit isn't perfect as it still can discharge in a few cases but it is 500% better than the factory performance. It looks factory without having some huge GM alternator on my engine. So yeah, I can accept a slight (<10 amps) discharge when I have ALL my accessories on at idle in gear and yes, I consider that well-planned.

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Well, that explains it.

Dummy down "well planned" till it fits your situation then call it good enough. Why don't you turn up your idle speed or get a smaller alternator pulley and fix your "well planned" setup.

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Wow tough crowd here.

So everything is a compromise, right? I don't want a giant honken obviously aftermarket alternator on my car. It would be wonderful to have a factory appearing alternator that put out 120 amps at idle but such a thing doesn't exist to my knowledge.

The discharge doesn't endanger my wiring or affect my drivability so I am satisfied with how it works for me. It is way better than factory which many people here deal with all the time.

So it's not 'dumbing down', it's your opinion that my setup isn't 'good enough' to be 'well-planned' apparently.

Also good luck finding a smaller double-groove pulley for the alternator.

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Incredible...
Nobody has mentioned the HP drop when the alternator kicks in to drive those (2) electric fans..
Electric fans can draw up to 35 Amps, while many OE Mopar alternators were only rated < 50 Amps...

Just my $0.02...

---

Quote:

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HP drop was measured and factored into the dyno tests. HP drop is much less than that of a mechanical fan but yes, there is an additional load placed on the alternator from the electric fan. After all, nothing is free.

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OK lets do a little caculation..
The mechanical fan draws 10 HP, and the alternator driving electric fans draws 8 HP so one loses 2HP..

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That being said an electric fan can cut off entirely when it's not needed (ZERO loss) unlike a mechanical fan.

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Isn't that the advantage of a clutch fan, no draw when cruisin down the road..

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As I already mentioned, adding electric fans will most likely necessitate upgrades to the charging circuit or you will create more problems. As for my car, I went to a 100 amp alternator and I don't have discharge unless I am idling in gear/lights on/AC on/hi blower/fans on @ the same time. This all goes back to the "well-planned" part I talked about.

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If one needs 100 Amps than definitely an well-planned upgrade is required..

Just my $0.02...

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So it's not 'dumbing down', it's your opinion that my setup isn't 'good enough' to be 'well-planned' apparently.

Also good luck finding a smaller double-groove pulley for the alternator.

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At highway speeds you should be able to remove the fan completely and the engine will still stay cool.

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I have run many cars/trucks with the mechanical fan completely removed (no fan at all) and the only time they would get hot was in slow moving/stopped traffic. My 68 cuda when it had the 402 stroked 318, my 2000 ram, 2000 dakota, 86 5th ave... and none of them got hot pulling trailers up mountain passes in 100+ heat. You can feel a big difference in power when you ditch them.

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So you're saying those vehicles can never slow down or stop? Sounds like a replay of the movie Speed.

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Incredible...
Nobody has mentioned the HP drop when the alternator kicks in to drive those (2) electric fans..
Electric fans can draw up to 35 Amps, while many OE Mopar alternators were only rated < 50 Amps...

Just my $0.02...

---

HP drop was measured and factored into the dyno tests. HP drop is much less than that of a mechanical fan but yes, there is an additional load placed on the alternator from the electric fan. After all, nothing is free.

That being said an electric fan can cut off entirely when it's not needed (ZERO loss) unlike a mechanical fan.

As I already mentioned, adding electric fans will most likely necessitate upgrades to the charging circuit or you will create more problems. As for my car, I went to a 100 amp alternator and I don't have discharge unless I am idling in gear/lights on/AC on/hi blower/fans on @ the same time. This all goes back to the "well-planned" part I talked about.

---

I wouldn't call that "well planned" if your car discharges at idle with everything on. That's not any good.

I recently installed a 99 amp powermaster alt in my ride. Made a huge improvement and it put's out good down low. I also put my lights and AC on relays and my lights stay bright at idle now, 13.9-14.1 volts bright at idle with the new alt.
I can't stand when a car discharges at night and the headlites dim. I always kept my foot on the gas some to keep the Rs up so my headlites stayed on. No more.

I think this powermaster could handle a 30 amp fan at idle?? Don't know it might be a problem?

---

Seriously? The OEM setup on my car 60 amp alternator would be discharging at idle if you turned on the lights and nothing else. So yeah, I'd say that only having a minor discharge with everything on at 700-750 rpm idle is absolutely acceptable considering a 20 amp draw from the fans which may or may not be on.

100 amp alternator is the biggest you can get for any reasonable amount of money that drops in and appears factory. My unit has the same specs as yours so I bet with yours...you'd be in the same boat.

Ask Powermaster what they define as 'idle'. I bet its 2400 alternator RPMs which would equate to 800 engine RPMs which I'm not running that high in gear. Since the output of an alternator is profoundly NOT linear in the lower ranges, this means you see significantly less than the stated idle output...that is unless you up your idle so your running 800 rpm in gear.

Sure enough, if I put the car in park/neutral, the RPM's rise closer to 800 and the discharge is gone.

But back to my original point, my charging circuit isn't perfect as it still can discharge in a few cases but it is 500% better than the factory performance. It looks factory without having some huge GM alternator on my engine. So yeah, I can accept a slight (<10 amps) discharge when I have ALL my accessories on at idle in gear and yes, I consider that well-planned.

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Quote:

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why is this such a "heated" debate?













I kill me

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