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So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
#1468059
07/15/13 09:36 AM
07/15/13 09:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,912
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
OP
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OP
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Posts: 5,912
Athens, Greece
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I am going back to my buddy's place tomorrow with a deadblow hammer & 3 pulley extractors. I am gonna come back and sandblast the harmonic, prime, paint, affix the timing tape and let it cure. The engine is in the car. He has a 3 core aluminum radiator with dual fans.
I can clean up the crankshaft with emery cloth, put the key in. Should I put some anti-seize compound on the crankshaft area where it comes in contact with the balancer? I know I have wedged the flexplate on an engine stand build but I have never done it in a car. How do you guys reinstall the balancer to torque spec? Do I have to remove the radiator and run an impact on it?
Is there another industry trick that I haven't thought of?
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1468062
07/15/13 10:09 AM
07/15/13 10:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,912
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Athens, Greece
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I think I have....the extractor....I think...it was a Lisle or a KB Tools... The rope is a great idea....would I be damaging anything by doing it this way? Will a valve be injured? The emery cloth...just to clean it up is all..its not a factory balancer. It was installed 350 miles ago and the paint flaked off and the timing marks went with it (I didn't recommend the balancer to him, but as usual, I am cleaning up someone else's mistake) but I can't dial his engine in without those markings and gluing it on temporarily isn't a solution for myself. I like to work on people's cars as if they were my own. Could I use a 1/2 x 20 bolt, slip on a nut, a washer, wheel bearing, and then crank it down against the harmonic? Tightening the nut to get it to go in? (I am just replicating the tool I just saw on Youtube) I wouldn't mind having the actual tool in my tool box as I like to collect the most obscure tools for jobs. Just nice to have it in case it ever comes up again This is the balancer he chose to installI just saw the address of the manufacturer of that harmonic...literally...SEVEN MINUTES from where I used to live and I have never heard of them....Makes you wonder
Last edited by Pyper70; 07/15/13 10:22 AM.
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: pushbutton]
#1468064
07/15/13 11:34 AM
07/15/13 11:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,912
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Athens, Greece
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I found my harmonic extractor so thats good news...PowerBuilt..
I will buy some rope tomorrow morning and try that method for the prevention of the assembly rotating.
As for the installation tool....shouldn't I put a bearing between the harmonic and the tool...something needs to act like a buffer against the flange on the balancer...wouldn't the washer butting up against it have excessive friction?
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: Pyper70]
#1468065
07/15/13 11:42 AM
07/15/13 11:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Quote:
As for the installation tool....shouldn't I put a bearing between the harmonic and the tool...something needs to act like a buffer against the flange on the balancer...wouldn't the washer butting up against it have excessive friction?
yes a bearing between the 2 would help.
This is a big block mopar if I remember right , the crank bolt is 3/4 - 16 ... fine thread .
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: Pyper70]
#1468066
07/15/13 12:03 PM
07/15/13 12:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,565
tennessee
pushbutton
pro stock
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pro stock
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Posts: 1,565
tennessee
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Quote:
I found my harmonic extractor so thats good news...PowerBuilt..
I will buy some rope tomorrow morning and try that method for the prevention of the assembly rotating.
As for the installation tool....shouldn't I put a bearing between the harmonic and the tool...something needs to act like a buffer against the flange on the balancer...wouldn't the washer butting up against it have excessive friction?
Use some grease if you like. it wasn't a problem for me.
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1468067
07/15/13 07:27 PM
07/15/13 07:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
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bethlehem pa
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Quote:
They make balancer installers , but I guess that would be hard to come by where you are . To torque it you need to wedge something in the flex plate
this is what i've always done. poor man's budget shop! 
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: Pyper70]
#1468068
07/15/13 07:35 PM
07/15/13 07:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,324
Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Prospect, PA
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It is referred too as a balancer or a damper, not a harmonic.
You can use a longer bolt and a nut on one of the torque converter bolt holes. Use the nut to tighten the bolt down, the bolt head will stop against the block .
Anti-sieze is not a bad idea. I use it. However, I not heard of a iron/steel balanced hub freezing on the crank...Aluminum, that's another story, always use anti-sieze.
You don't need to do anything with the key, and you will be creating unnecessary work for nothing in messing with it, IMO.
You might be able to get the balancer started using a mallet and then the bolt, or use a longer bolt. I promise that this was the only way used for years by virtually every hobbyist for decades.
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: BSB67]
#1468069
07/15/13 07:49 PM
07/15/13 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,912
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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I dunno...Always used the term balancer, damper and harmonic....semantics....
I found a rather interesting way...I am trying to avoid crawling under the car (her name is Christine) and even though I am not harming her...I would rather not be her first victim.
How about this picture below...starting the balancer on the keyway, cranking it down until the assembly begins to rotate...drop in a chain and bolt on the damper at the 10 o'clock setting....wrap the other end of the chain around the chassis or k-member and then cranking it down....the chain shouldn't move past the 1 o'clock position
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1468071
07/15/13 08:04 PM
07/15/13 08:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,912
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Athens, Greece
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I'll try the rope trick....if its by the numbers as you say it is...it shouldn't be a problem as its in the compression stroke
Every new trick is worrysome...hopefully afterwards I will wonder why I was so skeered of doing it in the first place
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: BSB67]
#1468072
07/15/13 10:53 PM
07/15/13 10:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
<snip!>.....
You might be able to get the balancer started using a mallet and then the bolt, or use a longer bolt. I promise that this was the only way used for years by virtually every hobbyist for decades.
Yeah, I've done the dead-blow hammer (or wood block, etc) trick a bunch of times, too. It does work, if a bit scary (pulled threads in the crank snout are not a good thing.) Just be sure you have plenty of thread engagement before going to town.
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: ek3]
#1468074
07/16/13 09:06 AM
07/16/13 09:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Quote:
why risk thread damage to the crank when advance auto will-- loan-- the tool to do it right?? 
The problem is the OP is in GREECE ....
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1468075
07/16/13 11:29 AM
07/16/13 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,912
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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I am here at the dudes house and I am looking at a spare damper from the same company...they accidentally sent two for the price of one...
the damper and the TDC and 90 degree marks do not match up with the MP timing tape I have...heck...even laying the timing tape at the TDC mark, there is a discrepancy at the 10 degree mark...There are two TDC lines...one says Street Hemi and the other one shows Race Hemi about 6 degrees after. I am obviosuly putting the timing tape on the Street Hemi mark. I have the #1 plug out and raised the piston up to where the distributor is firing. I am just un easy how the 0 and the 90 do not match up.
I am obviously going to put the tape with 0 degrees TDC on the Street Hemi TDC groove on the balancer. right??
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: dogdays]
#1468078
07/16/13 08:13 PM
07/16/13 08:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,912
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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OP
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Athens, Greece
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Rope trick worked like a charm...thanks for the tips on that.,...Now we are waiting on parts so I can put the Edelbrock on ride, and get her dialed in....
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: Pyper70]
#1468079
07/16/13 10:07 PM
07/16/13 10:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,038
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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Posts: 8,038
Tulsa OK
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I know you already have it installed but a harmonic balancer puller/installer from Pro-Form is one of my favorite tools. I don't use it often but it does work great.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1468080
07/16/13 11:13 PM
07/16/13 11:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
ek3
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MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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Quote:
Quote:
why risk thread damage to the crank when advance auto will-- loan-- the tool to do it right??
The problem is the OP is in GREECE ....
 oh no ... this guy is a magician ,he is in 2 places at once and one of them will have the tool or he can just poof one from thin air with his special powers......... 
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: ek3]
#1468081
07/17/13 09:09 AM
07/17/13 09:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
why risk thread damage to the crank when advance auto will-- loan-- the tool to do it right??
The problem is the OP is in GREECE ....
oh no ... this guy is a magician ,he is in 2 places at once and one of them will have the tool or he can just poof one from thin air with his special powers.........
I've read more than enough of his posts , he may have 2 locations listed , why ??? , but he is in GREECE, I'm sure he had has a hard enough time finding SAE hardware ...
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: pushbutton]
#1468082
07/17/13 09:35 AM
07/17/13 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
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Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
Go to your nut& bolt store and buy a longer bolt the same size as your balancer bolt buy a nut and flat washer for same. Screw in longer bolt and use nut with flat washer to push balancer on. Worked for me>
I'll definitely be going the longer bolt route next time.
The way I did it last time was to hammer (with wood) the balancer to the point where the threads somewhat engaged, then just keep torquing it in. It was a major PITA to hammer it that far on since I had no room.
As far as keeping the engine from turning, I just wedged a plastic-covered handle from a pair of pliers on the torque converter ring gear. I've always done it that way.
I do use anti seize in the balancer hub, and some on the area where the washer presses.
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Re: So...you pop off the harmonic. What about installing?
[Re: Exit1965]
#1468083
07/17/13 09:39 AM
07/17/13 09:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,125
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Go to your nut& bolt store and buy a longer bolt the same size as your balancer bolt buy a nut and flat washer for same. Screw in longer bolt and use nut with flat washer to push balancer on. Worked for me>
I'll definitely be going the longer bolt route next time.
The way I did it last time was to hammer (with wood) the balancer to the point where the threads somewhat engaged, then just keep torquing it in. It was a major PITA to hammer it that far on since I had no room.
As far as keeping the engine from turning, I just wedged a plastic-covered handle from a pair of pliers on the torque converter ring gear. I've always done it that way.
I do use anti seize in the balancer hub, and some on the area where the washer presses.
I don't like  it on , it was how I used to do it , also using the bolt to pull it on and messed up the threads on a 340 crank.
I pulled the balalncer off a 440 that belonged to a friend years back and the hub was split down the keyway , didn't realize it till I went to pull off the pulley , crank bolt was off , and the pulley and balancer paint being stuck to each other with the pulley bolts removed was enough for the balancer to come off the crank .
I use the right tools now even though 100's of millions of people have done it millions of billions of times before the universe was created from the big bang ...
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how can we know where you are all the time- unless - we are with the govt. 